Mafia

Announcement - Player Stats!

Just wanted to give a quick announcement. Over the weekend I started work on a new "Player Stats" page, which is similar to the Player Scores document we already have but will display much more detailed information such as number of wins, number of losses, survival %, average score per game, and more.

You can find the link here:
http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/5196/player_stats.html

THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS there's a lot of information I haven't gotten around to adding yet, and some scores do not match up with the Player Scores document, which I'll have to check on an individual basis. Since the Player Scores document never kept track of individual scores and was updated by multiple people, I don't think it's outlandish to assume there is some incorrect information on it (I remember up until half a year ago Lady Flare was on there twice with two VERY different scores, for example.)

Again this is a work in progress; a lot of information is missing and some may be incorrect. To get this I had to go through all previous games and manually record the points from each game, including changes made after player feedback, good hosting points (which were seldom recorded in the threads,) and from games that don't have complete reply records due to the site-wide reply deletion issue from a year and a half back. Despite that, several players' scores are perfectly accurate.

The reason I'm posting it now is for feedback, both in terms of whether *your* total score is accurate (so I have a better idea of who to check for inaccuracies) and in terms of data people would be interested in that isn't listed (if there is anything.) I do have plans to add a column for "point total from the last X games" (probably somewhere between 5-10, which would display only the points earned in the last 5-10 games each player played in.) The "Rank" column will be a ranking assigned to each player based on Total Score, Average Score, and Last X games, and will be used for the initial order the list. My goal is to make a ranking system that has more fluidity to it, rather than the way we currently keep track of scores. Newer players should be able to show up at the top if their performance is good enough, and veteran players shouldn't always be at the top just because they've played in almost every game (we've had the same Top 5 for years now.) We do have several "new" players now and I think we can all agree that they should get more recognition than they might from the Total Player Scores.

Let me know what you guys think and if there are any inaccuracies I should check up on.

And I know this goes without saying but please keep the discussion in this thread strictly on-topic, since anyone (dead players and people not playing) will be allowed to post here. No game-relevant information pertaining to Game 31 should be discussed here.

WHOOPS @ including the title in the message.

Also in case I didn't mention, you can sort the data by column values by clicking on the heading. So of you click on "Average Scores" or "Games Played" it will sort it based on that value.

My K/D has gotta be off the charts!

unpopular opinion you (MM9) will dislike: I consider player scores as a whole to be largely useless and I don't really care for further elaboration on an inherently subjective, fluid metric

the more objective aspects are one thing and could be sort of a kick to track imo (say...win/loss rate overall/as town/as mafia, survival stats, maybe things like "% of games as Townie/power role/mafia-sided/third-party), but with all the factors involved I personally don't attribute any real value to the scores as they are.

comparing performances within a game has some value, but with the variation in hosts/roles/balance/etc, the involvement of luck, and the potential for outside influence, I've never cared much about the running totals beyond the "20 to host" rule that existed long before I knew what mafia was (Game 17 here was my introduction to the game, oh how time flies~). I associate certain people with certain skills/specialties/quirks through experience and call it a day.

Gonna pitch in my two thousand cents and agree with PN. The scores only exist as the tool for whether or not someone can host, at least imo, so anything besides whether or not someone has 20 points does not concern me. If anything, putting out these really elaborate stats only serves to further indulge those who might be a little self-absorbed about, let's just say, something like an 70% win rate or a 2.5 point average. And I don't give a fuck but I could do without someone with a big head shoving their point total down my throat.

I don't see it going away since it's been a part of GTX0 Mafia since day one but I wouldn't be opposed to a page that keeps track of those who have yet to reach 20 points and for everyone who has, it can just say they're qualified to host instead of "50 points w0w here's your cookie" since it doesn't matter beyond that point.

If I get lots of points, can I use them to unlock camo for my weapon?

I think there are some misconceptions about the intention of a player stats page like this.

This by and large is intended to address the issue of Player Points being pointless after a point, while at the same time eliminating the idea of people focusing too much on a "scale" that rewards players with a high point total and nobody else. The "top" of this kind of list will constantly change based on the most recent games. It recognizes players who perform well in recent games--people who are "MVPs" in a sense--for a brief period of time. We've done the same in the past, just not formally; I specifically recall periods where Roxas, Bubba, white lancer, The Bandit, and more, all played amazing games, for example, and they got recognition for it at the time. A "score" system that rewards this is much more fitting for a game like mafia which is largely based on luck (I don't think anyone is denying that, and people would be foolish to think they could maintain perfect or near-perfect records.)

Moreover, I'm hoping that a player stats page like this would negate potentially false preconceptions people have about other players. Because nobody is perfect, and there are several games when players are killed solely because they're viewed as "power players." My hope is that the Survival % column in addition to other stats will show that players shouldn't necessarily be viewed in this light and killed for that reason, and maybe prevent this kind of killing if someone has a very low survival %. Again, nobody is perfect; we all have bad games.

I can understand where you guys are coming from in not wanting people to be able to shove a stats page down people's throats in bragging, but can you honestly say you've seen people do that with things the way they are? Because I don't see the people at the top of the list bragging about being the best, even though their names are at the top of a document titled "Player Scores." I like to think we're a community that's kind of above that sort of thinking, and it has never been an issue as far as I recall.

Player scores always existed from the start as a "fun" measurement. Not for the arbitrary "20 points to host" requirement which was an afterthought. I could probably find the quotes from Yeano where he said this if I looked hard enough. While this may have worked during the initial months and years of mafia, it is inherently outdated. New players will never see their names at the top of any list like that even if they perform phenomenally, and an ordering with a heavy emphasis on recent games should resolve that, bring back the "fun" factor that was intended, and hopefully eliminate the idea of killing the same players that are viewed as "the best" (because those players don't exist.) I also really don't see the idea of bragging being an issue, because it currently is not an issue at all, and I'd argue nobody could stay at the top of a list as proposed for more than a few games.

Of course I'm all for input from others and if this viewed as a bad idea I'll totally stop (I'm extremely busy this week anyway so I don't expect to get too much work done.) Though I don't see the problem and see this as a much better alternative to the current system.

I think it's a great idea.

I actually had a spreadsheet similar to this updated to the 20th game or so...

If you still have that it would be pretty helpful :). How much information did you record on it?

I don't remember exactly, but I have it on my old computer. I'll dig it up this weekend and see what I've got. :)

Wow, even though I haven't played in a long while, I am still ranked 11th.

Kodos to chief on being the only person to have played in EVERY game so far.

Chief has to have missed a game or two at this point, right? I'm only two games behind him and I know I've hosted more than two games. I've been involved in every game so far, but multiple of those have been hosting. :)

shitty

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