Mafia

Interesting.

I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts before we start some serious deliberations. And by everyone, I mean everyone.

CtR Black: Townie Dead



Well that went well.

Redack: Townie Dead.

I think it's time we stop reading
Speed Bike Pro's walls of text, which in my opinion are done just to confuse people.

@Redack



Was going to do so anyway, but feel better about it now. since you usually are right on.

So in your honour.

Awfully nice of you to join us, chiefsonny.



I didn't know someone was actually reading them, I am glad to know my efforts did not go to waste.

And no, they aren't done to confuse anyone. We saw how well the "walls of texts to confuse people" strategy worked for MM9 and Yeano. But I suppose I'll keep things short and simple from here on out to appease you.

I have a couple people in mind who I think are mafia but I will reserve my vote for later.

Was gunning for Speed, but since Redack's instincts are 99.99999999999% accurate...

Thanks. Some of us do have a life other than the Internet.

Just a little reminder boys and girls.

Unless it's been changed all the Mafia needs is a tie. Game over.

Cool, I'll keep that in mind.

Anyways, if you're doing being a smartass, you posted twice in day 4 and zero times in day 5. Day 5 was arguably the most important day of all because it was the first in which we lacked any clear leads. Good on you for having a, quote unquote, "life" (whatever that is), but you had 72 hours to contribute anything at all which you did not do.

Now that Redack is dead mostly because of me, it's awfully convenient for you to return from your dark corner to take advantage of my shot credibility and cherry pick a townie that I have recently defended.

Black Yoshi, I feel like you have good intentions at heart. We are not so different, you and I... it's just that when I accuse people, they have died so now I look like the bad guy.

But my problem lies with you, chief. You said nothing at all in Day 5 when we had nothing to go on, and now you are hastily voting for Apollo just because of Redack's "gut feelings"? I ought to applaud you if anything, sir. You are a master puppeteer... I killed the beloved Redack and now he is a martyr, making his dying words linger on the minds of townies. You are trying to capitalize on this grand scenario but I would like for you to die now.

You guys can listen to Speed Bike Pro because he thinks I'm a "smartass" and vote to lynch me if you want. But the result will be the loss of another townie. And he knows that.

Or you can listen what Redack said in the last day round before Speed Bike Pro voted to lynch him.

Redack. Lynched. Townie Dead



And you guys that have played in a lot games and are familiar with the way people play, know that when Red does something like that, he's usually right.

You're proving my point that you are, indeed, a smartass but that is entirely independent of my other point that you are, indeed, mafia.



My confidence is unwavering and your attempts to minimalize the threat of my vote is elementary at best. In fact, it is just the behavior I'd expect of an opportunistic mafia such as yourself. You probably thought Apollo would be an easy out but you have exposed yourself. For that, I should thank you because that will bring us down to just one mafia left.

What it's going to show them is that either you're Mafia, or are not very good a picking guilty people.

CtR Black Townie

Redack Townie.

And you can keep on posting your walls of text. But I won't be reading or responding

But I do want to congratulate you for playing a big part in the Town losing 2 members and 3 if the remaining townies fall for your vote that is based on personal reasons, not whats good for the town.

I can't really say I know why people think I'm in Mafia because Redack had a gut feeling {:(}... I thought we played this game based on people doing suspicious things and acting in certain very strange ways. And yeah, I'm sure Redack is really good at this game (he knew MM was Mafia), but I don't think I deserve to be lynched over something so insubstantial. I like to think I've played okay and helped somehow {:(}

If another Townie dies, it's likely that this game is done for. For the record, I'm not in the Mafia, so if I'm lynched, we will be at a serious disadvantage, especially with two Townies dying in one night.

This day will make or break the game for us. Can we at least have a discussion instead of immediately jumping to conclusions based on what only Redack said? {:(}

If any of my previous replies were "walls of texts" then you must have only read haikus and short stories all your life.

Your behavior in this thread alone is exactly the behavior of someone no one should want to keep alive, let alone listen to. You have outright admitted to basing your vote on no evidence whatsoever, as well as refusing to read what others have to say. If you aren't going to base your votes on any actual basis and you aren't going to listen to others, then why are you even still alive? You are a detriment.

How convenient that you forget this:



That was the day CtR died. Oops.



Thanks, when do I get my medal?

I'm actually inclined to think Apollo's right -- after all, at this point if we mislynch we lose, and quite frankly, Speed has been far more suspicious than Apollo.

Boy, if Redack was wrong we are royally screwed over...

You may be right Black Yoshi. But if you look at what Redack said. He said he was pretty confident Speed is innocent. And since he was a townie, I doubt he would intentionally mislead us.

In fact I was going to vote for Apollo anyway (not for personal reasons)but based on the fact that in a lot of previous games when new players posted a lot or made long they were either a town power role of Mafia. And she has made a couple long post as has Speed.

Then when Redack made that post, I went back and checked as many of his (redacks) past game post that I could find, and I could not find one where he was wrong.

If Red's wrong that will really put us between the rock and a hard place.

Let's keep in mind that Kyon, Jo Nathan, and FAW have all barely posted at all.

As much as I enjoy this game of grabass we are playing with each other, the remaining mafia could be right under our noses without even saying a word.

im not mafia btw

:)

Actually, nevermind, I'm going to keep with my gut instinct.

Supermod Kyon, I wasn't sure whether or not you might be Mafia until that first post of yours. Many thanks for clearing that up.

I have to say I'm in agreement with chief. It may not make the most sense to us but Redack is always spot-on. If we turn out to be wrong we can at least blame him for it.

Apollo is innocent... Apollo can help us win {:(}

I don't know how else I'm supposed to defend myself if you guys are just going to lynch me because Redack told you to... {:(}

Blame a dead guy? I don't see the point in that.

I am equally as suspicious of Jo Nathan as I am of chiefsonny for the same reasons I posted above. This is only my second game, first with Redack, but apparently he is deemed as a god with an impeccable hunch for rooting out mafia. I think it's silly that his word is enough to lead a lynch on someone based on literally nothing, especially this late in the game. I would be open to considering Apollo but so far, no one has presented anything at all to make me do so. Meanwhile, several of the active posters including myself have plenty of reasons to be lynched and plus there are still the relatively AFKers sitting in their corner.

I'm just saying that we have a lot better choices to pick from rather than voting for Apollo because a dead guy said so.

I may have been open to changing my vote, but to be perfectly frank, I find it unsettling how you're quick to point the gun at anyone who goes after Apollo - first Redack, and now me and chief. I can understand having doubts about a lynch target, but to me you seem just too over-protective. I had thought you were innocent and Redack seemed sure of it, but I'm just not sure what to make of this.

I won't fight it if others want to change their vote, but I don't intend to change mine. I can't put my finger on it, but there's something about her defense posts that strike me as unconvincing. No offense, Apollo.

I can understand having doubts about a lynch target, but to me you seem just too over-protective.

Maybe it's because he really doesn't think I'm in the Mafia because I'm not? And maybe he knows that a mislynch at this point will really hurt us?

I can't put my finger on it, but there's something about her defense posts that strike me as unconvincing.

That's because I don't really have anything that I can defend against. How am I supposed to defend myself against a "gut feeling" that a player had? Lynch me if you'd like, heck, I'll vote for myself if my demise winds up being inevitable to speed the game up, but I wish you wouldn't all suddenly jump on the bandwagon Redack started without even providing some form of empirical evidence. At least then I would have something to defend myself against.

Also, for the record, I'm highly suspect of Black Yoshi (since he's accused so many people of being in the Mafia and they haven't been), but since he doesn't have any votes going for him (and chiefsonny does, and I slightly suspect him), let's go with this.

Never mind. I'll take that back for now. I don't want to make an irrational choice as well, especially when not only do Black Yoshi and chiefsonny have my suspicions, but also Kyon, Jo Nathan, and FAW.

Seriously, does no one else see chiefsonny as the cancer that he is? Maybe I'm just different since I'm standing on the opposite side of this whole do-whatever-Redack-says train of thought but truthfully, the context of the situation is irrelevant.

It's Day 6, the ratio is down to 5-2 (excluding Feral's role), and we have a guy who is voting to lynch someone who has done nothing to indicate that they are mafia-sided just because a dead person said so and after doing so, this guy is now refusing to listen to any sort of logic, reasoning, argument, what have you. It's a shame that at least two more of you are also brainwashed by Redack because chief's behavior has raised the reddest of red flags in my mind. This shit isn't even red anymore, these are straight garnet flags.

There are no personal reasons. I am not looking for faults in your votes just because Apollo Justice is the victim here. The reason I am opposed to this is because seriously, look at yourselves, but also look at chiefsonny too because apart from listening to Redack, everything he has done this round points to the behavior of someone who wants to hurt the town. I have led the lynches of two townies and I am not proud of that, but at least I presented arguments based on evidence which I provided for you all to read. If they happened to be "walls of texts" which you refused to read, that's not my fault. I know a good store for reading glasses right down the street from here.

On the other hand, rather than presenting arguments or evidence or literally anything else, chiefsonny's only line of thinking is "redack said it so it's true". Black Yoshi is the same but I'm not necessarily faulting him for being easily swayed by the crowd, that just seems to be who he is. Jo Nathan, again, is in the same boat and I am suspicious of him. But chiefsonny is the head of this snake and I say it's time we cut it off.

You're next, Jo.

Sorry, I got a little caught up in my belief that chief is mafia. Let me clarify a few things.

On my 1-10 scale of being mafia (1 being not likely, 10 being definitely mafia), the remaining participants score as follows:

chiefsonny: 18 billion
Kyon: 6
Black Yoshi: 7
Jo Nathan: 8
FAW: 7.5 (gave her an extra .5 because her inactivity is seriously disconcerting)
Apollo Justice: 5
Speed Bike Pro: 6

My previous reply was not meant to imply that I am only suspicious of chief... It's just that he sticks out the most and I think this day round would be best spent lynching him.

Okay, now I'm almost certain that Speed is guilty. Way back in Day 3, as we all suspected chief, he came out apologizing for his actions in the failed game 17.1, and he stated that the reason he revealed so early in the game was that he had planned on doing so if he got Townie. Had he been Mafia, he would never have revealed that early in the game, even for such a valid reason as he stated.

Still, I'm hesitant to remove my vote for Apollo because it was a Redack recommendation, and those are always spot-on.

If we're throwing out who we think is suspicious, I'd have to say that I think the remaining Mafia is Apollo and Jo Nathan.

And I don't particularly say much when I'm just a Townie. Sorry {:P}

I'm curious as to why you find both of them guilty. Would you care to explain?

Shut up, Mafia

{fp}

I hope that these type of things are going to show everyone that this is a personal thing on your part and not game related.



I'm beginning to think that Redack was wrong about you. And any day would be a good day to lynch a townie for you.
But I won't change my vote regardless of what you have to say.

white lancer: Tuesday, Apr 30, 2013 -- 12:09pm

Good god, man. It was a simple exaggeration. It's not like I have a grudge against you. I have presented my case in this very thread for why I am voting for you and it is all based entirely within the game. This isn't personal, it's just business, ya dig?



I meant that you are a cancer to the town. It's not an attack on your person but please, feel free to continue playing the victim when that is not even close to the case.

Redack must be rolling in his grave reading this...

I'm seriously considering switching my vote right about now -- I don't care if voting Apollo was a Redack recommendation, at this point in the game if we mislynch we lose, and Speed has struck so many sour notes in me, I could write a Bartok symphony.

However...



Redack's suspicion stands.

If you intend to lynch me, you should re-read the first part of what I quoted.

Well I haven't done in digging in some time now, but I do need to plant some new rose bushes.

But I understand what you're saying.

I'm down with it dude.

Did I use that in the right context?{:?}

I don't care if voting Apollo was a Redack recommendation, at this point in the game if we mislynch we lose, and Speed has struck so many sour notes in me, I could write a Bartok symphony.

Are you saying you may vote for Speed? I wouldn't be against it if others followed that suit. He's been pretty fervently defending me (but also just been pretty crazy in general) and that makes me glad but with the possibility that he could be Mafia and also the possibility that I might still be lynched, I may have no other choice. And as you said, the sour notes he's hit are on an all-time high. Considering he's... kind of led the lynch against 2-3 innocent Townies. Obviously, I really wish I could prove to you I'm not in the Mafia, but... as I've said, I don't have anything to defend myself against since all people are going on is Redack's suspicion. So all I can do is tell you I'm not and really hope you'll believe me so that we don't lose. {:(}

Also, chiefsonny, Speed can be a little hyped up at times. I don't think he means malice towards you. {:P}

Here's to last minute hopes. It's my only tiny chance at survival. {:(}

Given the circumstances that have presented themselves, I am going to change my vote accordingly. This is for everyone's best; a townie will not die and we will have the luxury of increased numbers for day 7, which will be vitally important to our chances of winning.

If I have to vote for myself in order to do so, no matter how foolish that may seem... So be it.

See you all on the other side. {8D}

And by that, I mean the other side of the night round.

Sorry, I just wanted to sound cool. (look)

Two people change their votes at the last minute to make it a tie and stop the lynching of Apollo.

Speed Bike Pro
Apollo

And we lost another townie.

Do I need to say more?

Last 2 Mafia Members

Speed Bike Pro
Apollo

Oh wow, now with Black Yoshi gone, I know who mafia is for sure.

Interesting.

If I die, the town loses.

That why we need to go after Apollo first. You can wait.

For what it's worth, I'd like to do another no kill today. If we mislynch today or tomorrow, we lose. So I'd like to increase our odds of getting a correct lynch by letting the mafia cut down our numbers even more tonight.

This is my vote and I will only change it to chiefsonny if other people actually bother to listen to logic. I won't fight it if you want to lynch me because you will harm yourselves more than me.

All in all, good show, ladies and gentlemen.

I bet you would.

That would leave Apollo alive for one more day. And by voting No Kill, you won't have to repeat what you and her did in the last round to prevent her from being lynched. Doing that 2 days in a row would really send up the red flags.

But a No Kill, will let you both get to another night round being alive and well.

And if you need further clarification of what I just said; yes, I am inviting the mafia to kill one more townie before we make our decision.

Does anyone see any flaws in this strategy? I acknowledge that it will require the sacrifice of one townie but apart from that, I see nothing but positives coming of this for the town. I will stop speaking about my suspicions for this day round because whoever dies tonight would go so so so SO far towards revealing the last two mafia.

My best advice is to wait and everyone would be wise to listen.

Only the remaining mafia are safe. That means any of us could die, including Apollo or myself.

There is no difference between lynching today and lynching tomorrow apart from a slight reduction in numbers. If we mislynch in either case, the town loses. All I'm saying is that in order to increase our odds of lynching a mafia to their likeliest extent, we should wait until tomorrow.

I voted at the end of the day round not even realizing how close it was to the end. I knew that if one person changed their vote to Speed, I'd be saved, and I was hoping for that because a mislynch would have made us near-losing. I don't see how that indicates that I'm Mafia. It proves that I didn't want to be lynched, because why would anyone want to be lynched? I didn't expect that Speed himself would do that to save me. Maybe because he wants to appear like he's innocently saving a Townie? Perhaps he is Mafia? Needless to say, he’s done a lot more to raise eyebrows than anyone else this game has.

I feel like I'm continuously defending myself against these arguments that hold little substance. I don't see how the fact that I voted for someone else at the end of the day proves I'm Mafia (judging by the text I quoted), that's just silly. I'm trying to defend myself from being lynched because it will literally end the game. It’s likely that the only reason the Mafia hasn’t killed me is because I’ve become a target for everyone to go after, so keeping me alive works in their favor. But the fact that chiefsonny has been on my tail for a while is only making me think that he's Mafia. I’m not going to vote for him (now), but the fact that he jumped into the thread and immediately voted for me without any decent reasoning has me a bit suspicious.

I would like to point out that a mislynch today is a guaranteed loss for us. 4-2 is the alive ratio, and if a Townie is lynched, that ratio becomes 3-2, and then a night kill will end the game with the Mafia winning at 2-2.

I remember when I was in Mafia a few games ago, we did the exact same thing that Speed and Apollo did. Vote at the very last minute to make it a tie so they didn't lose a member. So, I'm still kinda thinking that Speed is innocent, but it makes Apollo just a bit more guilty in my eyes. {:P}

I see the logic behind the no-kill suggestion, but that strategy could be dangerous. It would make it easier for the Mafia to influence/manipulate/tie the votes because there will be one less townie to make things more balanced. The last round has already shown how drastically the course of the game can change by some quick voting.

Would you care to explain?

Specifically, what makes you so sure of my innocence?

Actually... you don't need to answer that.

I have seen enough to reach my fully confident verdict on the remaining two mafia. Allow me to reintroduce my 1-10 mafia scale, edited so that only the surviving participants remain.

chiefsonny: ∞
Kyon: 2
Jo Nathan: 1
Female Alpha Wolf: 9.999999999
Apollo Justice: 0
Speed Bike Pro: √-1

I'd like to call your attention to two figures in particular on this scale... namely, chiefsonny and FAW. These are our last two mafia and I'd like for both of them to die, starting with chief today.

Chiefsonny, you seem awfully eager to rush this game to a close. Why is that? If we had things your way, another townie by the name of Apollo Justice would have been lost last round. Don't you think we've already killed enough of our own, hmm? (RIP, CtR Black and Redack...)

But that is precisely your goal. As I stated in the previous day thread, you are an opportunist. After I killed Redack, you saw it as your chance to essentially end the game by rushing another lynch of our dear Apollo Justice. Due to favorable circumstances, we were able to prevent that. But it still served to expose you as a fraud!

You knew I would defend Apollo Justice, didn't you? And that is why you waited until Redack's death to try to lynch her, after my influence would be at its most diminished point. It's a shame that there are only two of you mafia left because the numbers game plays to the favor of the town right now.

What makes you so eager to lynch today? Is it because you find Apollo guilty based on no evidence whatsoever? Or... is it because you are mafia and want to kill the person you see as the chink in our armor in order to win? I'm sorry, old sport, but Redack's word can only take you so far. It's time we let the proof speak for itself and right now, the proof is screaming out to kill chiefsonny.

You had a nice little operation going on here. Did you think thrusting yourself to the forefront of the action would protect both you and your cohort, FAW? You planned to lead the lynch on Apollo while FAW cheered from the sidelines. Hmm, what's this...? I seem to have found.... a quote of sorts in my pocket! Here, for all to read:



Kyon, chiefsonny, and myself are absent from that list. Convenient that you wouldn't suspect me, considering I've done a superb job of attracting the attention away from the true mafia. That just leaves Kyon and Jo Nathan.

So again, chief, I ask you... Why the rush to lynch today? No need to answer because I'll do it for you. If we were to no kill again today, that would leave the mafia in a position to kill either Kyon or Jo Nathan, which would essentially solidify the notion that chiefsonny and FAW are the last two mafia.

Which would you prefer, chief? To be lynched today or wait until tomorrow when there is no other choice?

The prosecution rests, Your Honor.

You want to lynch me today, just say the word and I'll vote for myself. that will give me two votes.

All we've done so far this game is kill our own. Anybody have a count on how many townies were lynched by townies?

After reading through the day threads, I have come to the conclusion that chiefsonny is almost certainly in the Mafia. This is my case (prepare yourself – it is lengthy).













I don’t know how chief has played in the past, but I agree that role-claiming at all is risky and odd. Castrael role-claimed (sort of), and that didn’t get her very far. But she didn’t even role claim exactly WHAT kind of Townie she was. So I find it odd that she was lynched before chiefsonny to begin with. The Assassin (MM9) could have easily used chief as a target – he assassinated one person he guessed as a vanilla townie (Count Dooku or Hindenburg) and presumably attempted to assassinate another “vanilla townie” – white lancer, who actually turned out to be the Vigilante. With such an obvious role claim as a vanilla townie by chiefsonny, I find it very strange that MM9 wouldn’t just go ahead and assassinate chiefsonny in that case – unless he were Mafia, of course. This is also where white lancer has a very good point. Role-claiming is just an extremely bad idea until the Assassin is gone, because it makes you a VERY easy target. So, it doesn’t make much sense for chief to role-claim vanilla townie unless he was actually a part of the Mafia.






I understand that chief was pretty unhappy after last game, and I know he thinks others were upset with him (though even if people were, I don’t see why they’d let it affect their decisions 17.2). But this just seems like such an odd and weak argument for whatever he’s arguing against. He acted like he had some big reason, or something big to hide, but that… doesn’t seem like a big deal at all. It also took him until Day 3 to even say this, so my belief is that this is something that was just “made-up” (dare I say that it is poppycock) to poorly explain why he acted very out of character by role-claiming. I believe the actual reason he role-claimed is very simple – that reason being that he is actually in the Mafia.



Redack said this, and chiefsonny immediately votes for me the following day (Day 6). And other people (like Black Yoshi and Jo Nathan) do the same – they vote for me because of Redack’s infamous “gut feeling”. Also take a look at how emphatic Redack is about lynching me and not Speed. I assume that by this, he was indicating that Speed is not Mafia. Now direct your attention to the beginning of this day, Day 7. chiefsonny makes it clear that he is sure that Speed and I are the two remaining Mafia members. In other words, chiefsonny is selectively choosing what to use of the things Redack said to work in his favor. It seems like he doesn’t actually believe what Redack said, because if he did, he would have never made a mention of Speed possibly being Mafia (not to mention how sure chiefsonny was when he said that Speed and I were Mafia). In other, shorter words, chiefsonny created a bit of a contradiction in his accusations by accusing me AND Speed (citing Redack as the reason why he went after me), even though Redack specifically said not to lynch Speed. There wouldn’t be a very sensible reason for him to do this unless he was a part of the Mafia, which I believe he is.

Oh, and to all of the people who tend to trust Redack in what he says, he also accused chiefsonny as being in the Mafia, which I quoted above.

I know this was incredibly lengthy, but I wanted to have actual support for my argument and I hope people will actually read this and listen to me. I’m sick of having a target on my back that everyone is hitting at without providing any sort of support or facts or anything; as I’ve said, the only reason the Mafia hasn’t killed me is because they knew everyone would continue attacking me. So I’m going to take a stand and make my vote and hope others will follow so that we can get to the end of this game and fight for our win.



With that being said, I am confident that chiefsonny is a member of the Mafia.

Okay.

Do it.

To my fellow townies, I hope this proves once and for all that what Redack said about Apollo Justice is right on.

And please do a 'lol' at Speed Bike Pro when my lynch shows just how little he knows.

Chiefsonny, chiefsonny...



Not so gracious in defeat and even less gracious in lynching, eh?

Let's see how gracious you are when you are responsible for the death of another townie. How many will that make for you.

Counting last game (game 16), that will be 3 townies and 1 mafia. Guess which of those you are!

thanks for admitting you're mafaia

Ok townies all we need is one more vote and he's history.

You didn't seem to mind possibly dying on day one. What's so different now that it's day 7 with the town on the brink?

This is the black and white version: chiefsonny was ready to embrace death peacefully on day 1 or at least acted like he would, and now that death is staring him in the face he is acting relatively immature and making amateurish mistakes. The only sensible explanation for this is that he is mafia.

If you need any further proof, just scroll up. I will gladly quote the replies in particular that prove his guilt:



You seemed so ready to embrace death yet again, chief old boy. But what was your reaction when you realized you had 3 votes and death was knocking at your door?



Panic. One of the most transparent signs of guilt.

As for this tidbit...



As it stands, I have two votes and one more would make it three. Have you already forgotten after mere minutes that you just had three votes prior to chickening out of your self-vote? If three votes were enough to end this (which they aren't), you would already be dead.

What would be even better if two other townies would vote for Apollo Justice and the I will change my vote to her.

But this needs to be done before 6am tomorrow. Round ends at 9:20am, but if I need to cast a vote it has to be before 6am. Go to work at 6:30am

Why did you change your vote, chiefsonny?

Lock votes not on.

Well, let's just say I think you're more on the innocent side of the game rather than the guilty side.

And I'm definitely not Mafia. {:P}

I don't particularly see how I was "cheering" from the sidelines, and if I'm Mafia, I'm doing a pretty bad job at it but not really locking on a vote to anyone. Just one vote with how close this game is can easily sway everything, and I didn't because I was unsure. If I was Mafia, unsureness isn't even an option.

So, in short again, I'm not Mafia. I can't say much for Chief (if he is Mafia, good job), but I'm just a lowly Townie.

And that's all I have to defend myself with.

I hate to admit it, but Speed has been providing a lot of evidence and reasoning to back up most of his claims, and it actually makes sense to me. Although I can't say I'm convinced FAW has done anything to suggest she's guilty.

The one point I think is especially telling is how chief is going after Apollo because of Redack's uncannily accurate intuition, yet he's also going after Speed despite Redack's assertion that he's innocent. That, along with the other points brought up, really don't sit well with me so I will have to cast my vote for him.

Damn it, I don't want to be the decider!