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Mafia

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game 4 thread 3 night 3 and it gets worse

Posted April 23, 2012 by Yeano

Continued from [p:63138].

Night 2.

The town woke up to a horrible sight. In the night, CtR Black, the Governor, had been shot and killed while he was on his nightly stroll.

A block down, the town saw Teddy-Son, the Doctor, also dead with a bullet wound in his chest.

And so the town had anxiety, but no one to turn to except their voting process...

1. Zanic - Double-voter
2. `Roxas`
3. CtR Black - Governor
4. white lancer
5. Shadowwalked
6. MajorasMask9
7. Knukles2000
8. Xhin
9. LLight
10. hezekiah
11. Helius
12. chiefsonny
13. Bubba - Ghoul
14. Malas
15. Teddy-Son - Doctor
16. Feral
17. Redack
18. #85

Mafia-Town Ratio: 5-9

Roles: Godfather, Executioner, Silencer, Thug, Mafioso, Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Governor, Double-voter, Ghoul

72 hours or 9 votes. (5 votes needed for 1/3 vote).

WARNING: If your role changes to "Silenced," you may NOT post in this thread. If you do, you will be host-killed.

Also, updating rules of Executioner so that at least one non-mafia vote must be cast for that person in order to be Executed.

There are 338 Replies

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Damn, so no one would do what everyone thought was obvious. Anyway, the least consequence is still a No Kill for as long as the Vigilante lives.

April 23, 2012
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LLight

No kill again is just going to get us fucked.

April 23, 2012
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Malas

...Of COURSE you are going to no vote and let the Mafia get another swing...

Llight is clearly mafia.

For one, teddy was trying to imply he was a role of importance, Llight was the only one who seemed to be paying it attention at the time.

Also, he was unusually concerned about that executioner? Why? I think it's because he knew we'd catch on if he had 6 votes, and the execution er didn't kill him, we'd KNOW he was Mafia.

Also, He JUST voted no kill. Right away. Who does that here? We at least need to rethink our strategy since the Mafia is tearing us apart, and the vig is apparently not as smart as Llight *apparently* thought.

Also, he hasn't been mafia for 5 games (game two was redone.

Also, he's flat out different. A lot in the last thread should give it away.

He also was so desperate to defend himself all the sudden.

Look out for others who no vote, because there is a fair chance they are mafia as well.

It's these reasons, along with some others I am prolly forgetting That I Still will vote for Llight unless pigs start flying, or he can prove he isn't Mafia.

April 23, 2012
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Knukles2000

Ok so mafia got 1, and maybe vig got one, how did the 3rd die?

April 23, 2012
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#85

I am now 95% sure LLight is Mafia. Just to bad CtR had to die to confirm my personal theory. Also, I have a feeling that much of day 2 isn't what it appeared to be. Keep your freinds close, if you catch my drift...

April 23, 2012
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Feral

Zanic was killed by talking while silenced. But you realize, the mafia will be forced to vote the SAME thing if they know we are on to them unless they want to to just sit back and watch him die. As such, watch people pile on the no votes...

April 23, 2012
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Knukles2000

Zanic died last round for talking while silenced. That round could have been worse, we had 2 opportunities to lose 3 townies via executioner kill or town vote. Not enough evidence for town vote, which could also work against us. Limit the mafia's options by taking away 2 of their killing methods, leaving both sides to have 1 kill per night. This will work for as long as the Vigilante lives.

April 23, 2012
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LLight

Zanic died in the last round when he was silenced and talked. CtR and Teddy-Son were killed by the mafia and vigilante.

FWIW this is why I said the vigilante shouldn't kill anyone last night round. They ended up either shooting the governor or the doctor, but regardless, now the cop doesn't have any protection if they want to reveal. The most they could have is 3 guilty verdicts right now, mixed guilty and innocents, or all innocents. Revealing at that point with no protection would be kind of intimidating for the cop since they'll die whether or not we follow LLight's "lynch all cop claims" strategy. Now the mafia and vigilante also have a higher chance of shooting the cop as well as the town having a higher chance of accidentally lynching the cop.

Leaving in a bit so I'll cast my vote later.

April 23, 2012
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MajorasMask9

#85- Zanic was host killed last round for speaking while silenced.

April 23, 2012
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Feral

@Yeano: If the executioner tries to kill someone, and the governor stops it, would we know about it based on the day round story or no?

April 23, 2012
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MajorasMask9

Also, I would like to state that Teddy, and CtR both voted for Llight. What happened here is prolly the vig assumed they were Mafia for going after Llight, and the Mafia killed one because they went after Llight.

April 23, 2012
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Knukles2000

Anyway, there seems no reason not to throw your votes out to Llight given everything the way I see it. Unless you are Mafia. Now, I could be wrong and someone somehow dosn't believe Llight is Mafia despite all of this, but that seems doubtful unless they weren't paying good enough attention.

April 23, 2012
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Knukles2000

Also, i've been up all night, so don't expect me to be on in the day time. Or whatever time it is where you are.

April 23, 2012
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Knukles2000

@Yeano: If the executioner tries to kill someone, and the governor stops it, would we know about it based on the day round story or no?

Yes.

April 23, 2012
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Yeano

I was at work yesterday, but was able to read the thread on my phone (I need to report a bug or figure something out for that because it's only good for reading) then when I got on it was Night round. I couldn't do anything.

Before I make my vote, I'm going to listen to Llight and his defense. I think running with emotions on this one is going to get us hurt as a town.

I'm not voting for no kill either because at this point it's stupid.

April 23, 2012
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Helius

...okay, so my strategy from last night was based on the premise that the Vigilante was, you know, sane. Obviously that was a faulty premise. I can't understand why else they would take such a random shot when we had so many town-sided roles we wanted to keep alive. I can at least hope the Vigilante wasn't the one who killed Teddy, who implied he was a special role (and he really shouldn't have done that unless he was going to protect himself during the night).

Seriously, this move by the Vigilante makes no sense to me, unless the Vigilante is LLight himself...in which case I think it was incredibly foolish for him not to claim Vig yesterday when he was about to be lynched. At any rate, I'm not certain I trust the Vigilante's judgment enough anymore to allow them to take responsibility for the rest of the game. Part of my argument for having the Vig go after LLight this round was precisely because of the risk of them going after a special role, and LLight would have been a safe target even if he weren't Mafia since he claimed Townie.

I'm not voting just yet. Need to think about it some more. But it is a little frustrating when the Vigilante completely ignores the rest of the Town's strategizing from last night.

April 23, 2012
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white lancer

I'm voting for LLight.

People have pointed out that he's acted differently this game and I've thought the same thing since last round. His idea of lynching anyone that claims cop seems ridiculous to me, almost as if he's mafia that wants to lynch the cop no questions asked. You're a smart player and you can get people to go along with you with your arguments, but that's one strategy I'd never go along with.

I find it suspicious that the executioner didn't bother killing LLight last day round, but I'm putting less weight on this point. For the same reason I don't think much weight should be put on silencer targets when determining who's guilty or innocent: I've seen it done where silencers pretend to silence mafia, and where an executioner won't execute a townie to make them look suspicious. However, if LLight was mafia, then the executioner definitely wouldn't attempt to execute LLight.

I've said before that Mafia isn't and shouldn't be a game purely luck-based and entirely determined by a set of statistics. This is why: I'm pretty confident that LLight is mafia, so he gets my vote over a random vote.

April 23, 2012
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MajorasMask9

Could someone tell me what roles LLight has had in past games. Has he just been a standard townie or has he had any special roles. People keep referring to his different style this game and I'm just trying to establish (for myself) if there's a plausible reason other than him being Mafia.

I'll cast a vote later after I've had some time to think and read any more replies.

April 23, 2012
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Redack

Well that worked out just great: If you're Mafia.

11 No Kill votes and what happens. We lose 2 townies.

"That round could have been worse, we had 2 opportunities to lose 3 townies via executioner kill or town vote"

And it could have been better. All those No Votes could have been cast as a Random Vote or Direct Vote and we MIGHT have got a Mafia.
But you know what a No Kill votes gets you.
0 chance of killing a Mafia.

I'll be back to vote later and you can rest assured it won't be a No Kill vote

April 23, 2012
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chiefsonny
 

Go after LLight, I said. He's most likely Mafia, I said. But no, everybody started doubting what I was saying and went with his damned "No Kill." (Given, I did contribute to the No Kill, but ONLY because there was no way to solidly prove in the last round that LLight was Mafia.) Honestly, I'm surprised I wasn't silenced or killed off last night after my accusations against LLight, which I now believe are validated. While I would like to give LLight a chance to speak his innocence, and I'm using this term as loosely as possible, but he had the chance last day round and look what ended up happening.

And Helius, I understand why you would want him to have a chance to speak his innocence, but he lost it yesterday. That now has me thinking that you are also Mafia.

And it could have been better. All those No Votes could have been cast as a Random Vote or Direct Vote and we MIGHT have got a Mafia.
But you know what a No Kill votes gets you.
0 chance of killing a Mafia.

Exactly what I was trying to say. And we were so damn close to getting LLight. I'd have taken the 28% chance of hitting Mafia over the 100% of losing a townie at night.

And congratu-fucking-lations, Vigilante. You've screwed us over even more.



  • Redack: Each game, other than the last night round of last game, he's been just a simple ol' Townie.

    • April 23, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    @Roxas...

    Outside of this forum and in life, I'm generally a fair-minded person who is willing to listen to both sides of an argument.

    His math was correct, and the problem we had last night was human error. Whoever the Vig is has some explaining to do. If it is Llight, I want him to explain why in the world he would attack Ctr or Teddy (depending on which one was killed by the Vig).

    My vote is tentatively going to Llight unless he has a good reason for me to not go to it. At the moment, I don't see him as an asset to the town, I see him as the greatest threat to the town.

    I can't be blamed if I wanted to see how Llight's strategy was going to work out. Obviously, it's sucked.

    April 23, 2012
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    Helius

    My thing is, I can't make heads or tails of what happened last night. The only way it makes sense to me is if LLight himself is the Vigilante, in which case his decision to off either CtR or Teddy was rash but understandable. LLight was adamant that no one claim their roles, so that could explain why he didn't claim Vig last round to avoid being lynched...though I still maintain that refusing to claim in that situation is the WORST thing to do, since it's either claim or die via mislynch and dying doesn't help the town at all.

    The only alternative to LLight being Vigilante is that the Vigilante was someone who didn't think LLight was Mafia last round. I'm going to be so frustrated with the Vigilante if it turns out that LLight is Mafia, especially if he's not the Thug, because it'll mean that the Vigilante wasted a perfect opportunity to rid us of TWO Mafia members last night. As it is, I'm still doubtful enough that LLight is Mafia that I'm not voting for him as of yet, just because last night's events make far more sense if LLight himself is the Vigilante.

    April 23, 2012
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    white lancer

    If the town wants to go for LLight I'll support it, currently he seems to be our prime suspect however I have a feeling that he isn't mafia and thay the mafia might just be fuelling the fires (and I don't know if its just because he's managed to trick me or if its stuff hidden in what he's been saying). I'm not going to throw a vote for anyone else because that'd risk bringing on the executioner if I vote for a townie...

    I fully expect I'm wrong, but we won't know until LLight dies or the game ends and we can't sit back and do a no kill this round after the vigilante messed things up for us there. So for now I'll go with not voting, I don't want to get in the way but I don't feel strongly enough about LLight being mafia to agree to vote for him.

    April 23, 2012
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    Redack

    Ignore any typos in the above{:P}

    April 23, 2012
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    Redack

    It would fit for LLight to be the Vig. It would explain why he is so gung-ho for everybody to No Kill. It makes perfect sense for the egocentric LLight to want to make the major Mafia bust on his own, and getting the town to not take action gives him that opportunity. Unfortunatly, killing CtR(and I am certain that it was the vig, and not the Mafia, who killed him) destroyed his credibility.

    And he killed CtR because he was one of the three people(along with Roxas and Knuckles) who was close to taking him out. Last round I thought that those three may have been the Mafia. Now I am kind of thinking just the opposite(accept for that "friends" line I made earlier).

    Basically, I am with the general consensus that he is either Mafia(and running that group, Godfather or not) or Vig.

    Regardless, I have a very good idea of who another Mafia is, and a sort of idea on a third.

    April 23, 2012
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    Feral

    I don't know, I'm kind of in between voting for Llight or for Roxas, both for being very.... pushy. I'll wait to see how things go and then vote.

    April 23, 2012
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    Malas

    One more kill for Llight will make the executioner kill him if he's a townie, so I'm going to go with Not voting for now, but the LLight-haters have my support.

    April 23, 2012
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Oh, and if we're all wrong and LLight is the cop, then he needs to speak up immediately before someone recklessly casts another vote and the executioner lynches him.

    April 23, 2012
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    If LLight's a townie, why wouldn't the executioner have gotten him yesterday?

    April 23, 2012
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    hezekiah

    Thinking really hard about this, using what I know and how people are responding to each other. This is my current mindset on who is where:

    Mafia:

    LLight
    Knuckles
    Redack
    White Lancer
    Roxas

    Townies:

    #85
    Xhin
    Malas
    Majora's Mask
    Helius
    hezekiah
    chiefsonny
    Shaodwwalked
    Feral

    Knuckles is the wild card. But if he isn't Mafia, then Shadowwalked is.

    So if I suddenly drop dead over night, or those I listed as Mafia start a campaign to lynch me, then you know I am on to something.

    April 23, 2012
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    Feral

    Unless you're completely wrong and they lynch you to make people take your theory seriously.

    April 23, 2012
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    I will give him the chance to speak up if he is a special role.

    April 23, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Not gonna say why, but ^ = {8D}

    April 23, 2012
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    Feral

    Hmm... In this situation, it's too risky to gamble.

    April 23, 2012
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    #85

    I have no doubt his math was correct last round, Helius. I just did not like the idea of missing a swing in the dark and striking a member of the Mafia (like we were so close to doing, if my thinking was correct) instead of allowing for something like what happened in the night.

    In my opinion, white lancer, if he was the Vigilante he would have gone after me. I was the one butting heads with him constantly throughout the last day round, not CtR. Teddy was dropping not so subtle hints that he was a special role (which we now know to be the Doc), so I believe the Mafia took him out. I'm thinking it was the latter of two theories that you stated, though I still do not understand why I was not killed (or silenced, obviously) last night.

    And he killed CtR because he was one of the three people(along with Roxas and Knuckles) who was close to taking him out.

    Again, I think he would have killed me, since I am by far the biggest threat of those who originally voted for him.

    Oh, and if we're all wrong and LLight is the cop, then he needs to speak up immediately before someone recklessly casts another vote and the executioner lynches him.

    Or as Helius said, if he were the Vig he should also attempt to explain his actions.

    If LLight's a townie, why wouldn't the executioner have gotten him yesterday?

    ALL OF THIS. *points up*

  • Just want to point out that Shadowwalked has yet to talk this round. Could be that the Mafia didn't silence and he is busy, but I doubt it. Just making a note.

    And what Xhin said about your theory, Feral.


    But hey, if y'all need my death in order to "benefit" the town (which it would not), then so be it.

    • April 23, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    @Feral: Unfortunatly, killing CtR(and I am certain that it was the vig, and not the Mafia, who killed him)

    Just curious why you think that? I can see some circumstantial evidence pointing toward CtR having been shot by the vigilante, but this is assuming that LLight is the vigilante, which I personally don't believe. You sound like you're more than sure it was the vigilante that shot CtR, so I'm just wondering what makes you think so since you never really explained.

    April 23, 2012
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    MajorasMask9

    You do one of two things when you pile onto a conjected theory or unfounded feeling like the ones that advocated by Knuckles and Roxas: (1) It's usually wrong because you can't prove anything until someone dies, and (2) it draws suspicion to yourself if you're a townie, leaving your only suspect (i.e me, LLight) as the continued center of attention. I told you it wasn't a good idea to go for Knuckles' gut feeling because it's usually wrong, CtR Black and Teddy-Son were caught in that torrent and resulted in #2 as described above.

    And as an fyi, I'm not the Vigilante or any special role for that matter. Just the same destructive townie as I've been for the past 5 games, but you still won't know that until I die. It also doesn't matter who killed who because it's impossible to tell.

    If LLight's a townie, why wouldn't the executioner have gotten him yesterday?

    The town expects a role to do something. When I pitched the idea that the executioner could come in and kill me, he didn't because then that would indicate that I am mafia on the premise that mafia do not target themselves. It's a plausible mafia strategy to convince the town to lynch a troublesome townie while they pick off other roles.

    People have pointed out that he's acted differently this game and I've thought the same thing since last round.

    People have also pointed out that I am playing the same way. So my question then draws on, who are the players that say I'm playing differently? There's just you (MajorasMask9) and 'Roxas'.

    April 23, 2012
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    LLight

    If you choose to roll, here is the chart calculated by 100/[totalPlayers] which is 7.14 rounded up or down to 7.

    1. 'Roxas' is 1 to 7
    2. white lancer is 8 to 14
    3. Shadowwalked is 15 to 21
    4. MajorasMask9 is 22 to 28
    5. Knukles2000 is 29 to 35
    6. Xhin is 36 to 42
    7. LLight is 43 to 49
    8. hezekiah is 50 to 56
    9. Helius is 57 to 63
    10. chiefsonny is 64 to 70
    11. Malas is 71 to 77
    12. Feral is 78 to 84
    13. Redack is 85 to 91
    14. #85 is 92 to 98
    15. Re-Roll is 99 to 100

    April 23, 2012
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    LLight

    Again, I think he would have killed me, since I am by far the biggest threat of those who originally voted for him.

    If LLight were the Vigilante, he wouldn't have gone for the biggest threat but for the person he thought was most likely to be Mafia. Plus LLight stated that he would prefer to keep players who "make sense" around and you seem likely to fall into that category. I'm obviously not 100% convinced that LLight is safe, but right now the theory that makes the most sense IMO is that LLight wasn't killed by the Vigilante because he is the Vigilante.

    If LLight's a townie, why wouldn't the executioner have gotten him yesterday?

    Because the Executioner knew that the Governor was most likely going to pardon people (since I called for it last round) and they probably expected LLight to get taken out by the Vigilante anyway.

    Just curious why you think that? I can see some circumstantial evidence pointing toward CtR having been shot by the vigilante, but this is assuming that LLight is the vigilante, which I personally don't believe. You sound like you're more than sure it was the vigilante that shot CtR, so I'm just wondering what makes you think so since you never really explained.

    I was wondering the very same thing. It's true that it makes more sense for the Vig to have killed CtR than Teddy, but it also would have made even more sense for the Vig to have killed LLight than CtR.

    At any rate, though, it doesn't even matter. LLight is dead pretty much no matter what at this point, because hezekiah's vote briefly brought him to 5--even if we don't lynch him, the Executioner will kill him, and if he's not the Vigilante and the Executioner doesn't kill him, the Vigilante should because there's no reason for the Executioner not to kill him unless he's Mafia.

    April 23, 2012
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    white lancer

    Alright, so LLight isn't the Vigilante, in which case I'm more inclined to agree with y'all that he's suspect--the entire reason I didn't think so was because I thought he was the Vigilante. Either that, or he's just stubbornly refusing to claim his role, which doesn't help us at all. Doesn't change the fact that he's done for.

    Without the Governor we need to be VERY careful about voting early. The Mafia have enough votes right now that they could conceivably pile on any vote we make and have the Executioner kill someone, so even one Townie vote the wrong way could be disastrous. I suggest we all pull chiefsonnys and wait until the round is closing or we are ABSOLUTELY certain that someone is Mafia before casting a vote.

    April 23, 2012
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    white lancer

    People have also pointed out that I am playing the same way. So my question then draws on, who are the players that say I'm playing differently? There's just you (MajorasMask9) and 'Roxas'.

    I'm speaking more on my own personal observation, I simply recalled hearing it mentioned that you were acting differently, and I'm pretty sure it was more than just Roxas and myself that said so.

    As I said, you've been overly arrogant and I assumed it was an act at first. The dueling cards thing with Yeano sticks in my mind the most. You said it was to see if he was paying attention and to get him to participate more (answer questions). You claimed that you did this dueling cards match over AIM with him a long time ago, using the same screen name you use today, so my question then would be why you didn't simply contact Yeano over AIM instead of beating around the bush and put on a display for the people in the game.

    Your actions in general this game have seemed much different than past games except for your reliance on statistics. That's why I find you suspicious and am standing by my vote.

    April 23, 2012
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    MajorasMask9

    I'd also rather much keep with the vote for No Kill strategy. This reply also still seems consistent this round, except when the votes reach 1/3, -1 townies lost on the totals. (Edited: scratch that, it's consistent for the whole game for as long as the Vigilante lives. Also updated with current round ratios, removed we -X townies since that is redundant wording.)

    If we vote:
    1/4 chance: Town is right and Vigilante is right: Mafia kill -1 townies. Vigilante and Town kill -2 Mafia, -1 townies total. 5:8, 5:7 with Executioner kill.
    1/4 chance: Town is wrong and Vigilante is right: Mafia kill -1 townies. Vigilante kill -1 Mafia, -2 townies total. 5:7, 5:6 with Executioner kill.
    1/4 chance: Town is right and Vigilante is wrong: Mafia kill -1 townies. Town kill -1 Mafia, -2 townies total. 5:7, 5:6 with Executioner kill. *
    1/4 chance: Town is wrong and Vigilante is wrong: Mafia kill -1 townies. 0 Mafia loss, -3 townies total. 5:6, 5:5 with Executioner kill. **

    If we don't vote:
    1/2 chance: Vigilante is right: Mafia kill -1 townies. Vigilante kill -1 Mafia. -1 townies total. 5:8, Executioner kill not possible.
    1/2 chance: Vigilante is wrong: Mafia kill -1 townies. 0 Mafia loss, -2 townies total. 5:7, Executioner kill not possible.

    Voting only opens up options for mafia, it is more strategically sound to deny their assets when they have 3 ways to kill:
    1. Kill by vote by convincing the town
    2. Kill by Executioner (vote based)
    3. Kill by Mafia kill

    The town has 2 ways of killing:
    1. Kill by vote by convincing the town
    2. Kill by Vigilante

    Think of your favourite card game (like Yu-Gi-Oh or Magic the Gathering), we are playing a hand control strategy. A vote for No Kill puts us on a slightly more even playing field until the Cop/Vigilante dies because that takes away #1 & #2 for the mafia and #1 for the town. It also increases our chances for the most number of people staying alive and therefore more rounds for the cop to investigate. A vote should only be used if (1) Vigilante dies, (2) the Cop leaves a paper trail which can only be found after he dies or (3) we land on the 3/4 chance that losing 3-4 townies (see *), in which case the cop should reveal himself and his Night round investigations.

    Your evidence against me is not conclusive by any means, which leaves it flawed and prone to subjugation and manipulation unless you can point out a serious, serious shortcoming--like for instance, suggestion an option that leaves too many variables for there to go wrong.

    April 23, 2012
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    LLight

    Speaking of which, if we switch to No Vote, the max we lose is 3 at a 1/4 chance (see **) which puts our ratio at 5:6 rather than a max loss of 4 townies 5:5 if you allow the Executioner to get his kill.

    That being said, this game will be over in 2 Day rounds (if we vote) as a Mafia win and the next day round would be the best time for the cop to reveal his findings.

    April 23, 2012
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    LLight

    If I were to change my vote back, you would then have five, LLight. If the Executioner doesn't strike, I'd say it's safe to say that you are Mafia. And I believe that is exactly what will happen. Do I have other ideas about who may be Mafia? Yeah, but I won't state them until the end of this round.

    April 23, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    The executioner striking is also not conclusive because they could be holding back to shadow suspicion on someone else. It is a flawed reasoning.

    April 23, 2012
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    LLight

    I'm willing to take that risk.

    April 23, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Your evidence against me is not conclusive by any means, which leaves it flawed and prone to subjugation and manipulation unless you can point out a serious, serious shortcoming--like for instance, suggestion an option that leaves too many variables for there to go wrong.

    It's nearly impossible in this game to get concrete evidence without taking risks to get that information. We don't have a forensics team standing by to match the markings on the bullet used to kill CtR and Teddy to determine who holds the guns that killed them. And even if we did--with the way the game works--nobody would trust them anyway.

    Once the cop comes forward we'll have information to go on, and I urge the cop to reveal the information they have soon if it's relevant. Right now the cop is the only source of concrete evidence we can get.

    April 23, 2012
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    MajorasMask9

    LLight's insistence that he's not the Vigilante has thrown some of how I perceived this game off. There's little point in arguing for or against his innocence now, since he's going to die this round either by lynch, Executioner, or Vigilante. My vote this round is essentially a nonfactor, so I think that looking at how to proceed after LLight dies is more important.

    If LLight is guilty, that takes some of the suspicion off of the people who are pushing most for him to die (Feral, Roxas, Knukles, hezekiah, Majora). The Town should look more closely at those who have been reluctant to jump on the killing LLight bandwagon--and yes, that includes me, although I think I've explained my reasoning sufficiently. Other than me, that list contains Xhin, chiefsonny, Redack, Shadowwalked, and maybe Helius and #85, and there's most likely at least one Mafia member and probably more among that group. I couldn't say which ones are more likely than others, though.

    If LLight turns out to be innocent, things are more interesting. The five people I mentioned earlier as pushing for LLight's death suddenly look suspicious, and I think Roxas and hezekiah top that list. Hezekiah because he cast the vote that would enable LLight to be killed by the Executioner, and Roxas because he would know that and may have switched to not voting in order to throw off suspicion. I also am leery of Roxas because I think he tends to give a lot of thought to how to play this game, and jumping to the conclusion that LLight was Mafia based on the fact that the Vigilante DIDN'T execute him doesn't seem like a just doesn't add up because there's no correlation between the two. LLight might well be Mafia, but him not getting killed by the Vig does nothing to point us that direction, and I think Roxas would realize that. If LLight winds up being innocent, that's most likely where I'll go.

    The Vigilante needs to play VERY carefully. If we wind up being wrong on LLight AND the Vigilante mis-kills AND the Mafia kills, we're suddenly only up on the Mafia by 1 without a Doctor or Governor and maybe even without the Vig or Cop. It would probably be best if the Vig didn't kill anyone tonight.

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I am your forensics team. I measure bullet markings by outlining the possible course of action. Since I must insist that I am a townie, the possibilities for Night round Vigilante kill will be as follows:

    If we vote:
    1/2 chance: Town is wrong and Vigilante is right. Mafia kill -1 townies. Vigilante kill -1 Mafia, -1 townies total. 5:7 *
    1/2 chance: Town is wrong and Vigilante is wrong. Mafia kill -1 townies. 0 Mafia loss, -3 townies total. 5:6 **

    And actually, it will be up to the Executioner to decide my death if Xhin, Redack, white lancer, and #85 vote No Kill or some of the others change their vote. In which case, if I was actually lying and was the cop, I'd do one of two things: (1) Say it before the round ends and Yeano locks the thread, or (2) find a loophole and if I was the cop and have a loophole, you're fucked.

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    If you're the Cop, what point would there be in waiting? You'd just be risking a sudden pile-on of votes that might end the round while you weren't looking.

    Anyway, I don't see any reason why any of the votes matter at this point other than to end the round. Obviously if you get lynched you're dead, and if we vote No Kill the Executioner kills you, likely even if you are Mafia (to prevent a Vig kill).

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    There's no way to safely verify if I am the cop, which is why you'll have to kill me to find out as I have previously suggested. There is concrete evidence in death, which makes it the logical choice.

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    You're dead already anyway, whether we decide to kill you or not. There would be no purpose in withholding information at this point if you had it.

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    There's no way to safely verify if I am the cop, which is why you'll have to kill me to find out as I have previously suggested. There is concrete evidence in death, which makes it the logical choice.

    Yet if you are the cop, your death is meaningless if you don't reveal your results. The fact that you haven't released information in what seems to be a cop claim prior to your death makes me doubt your claim, as there's no point in withholding anything at this point.

    It's been pointed out, but no matter what happens you're most likely going to die this round. Either you get the majority lynch, the executioner will kill you, or the executioner won't kill you causing suspicion leading to a vigilante kill or lynch in the next round.

    As I've said a few times, I'm more than certain that you're mafia and tbh I'm glad that you're in this corner. You're a strong player and as mafia have a lot of power over people's votes, as evidenced by last round where you came close to majority and went down to only four votes. If this is what needs to be done to get you out, then so be it.

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    You could still vote No Kill and turn it around. There are currently only 6 valid votes where 9 ends the round.

    And it's like I said before, the Executioner decides right now since there are 5 votes against me. Keep in mind, an Executioner not choosing to kill supports the strategy where I am mafia. Since you don't know that for sure, it is not a valid theory.

    We still have a wolf of a chance.

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    I'm flattered. You're a strong player too, Majora. So is white lancer though, so for now he gets my MVP vote for "he deserves to win, even if we find out later that's he mafia", a title which you once held in my mind. The title holder usually means they're town sided though.

    Yet if you are the cop, your death is meaningless if you don't reveal your results.

    See option 2 in reply 1335223589. Is that like me or is that like me?

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Voting No Kill wouldn't do anything because the Executioner will still do his business. If he doesn't, then it's almost certainly because you're Mafia, in which case I sincerely hope the Vigilante chooses to take you out. Leaving it up to the Executioner would only help the Mafia, and even then it would only help them if you were Mafia, so unless I'm missing something there's absolutely no benefit to the Town to not lynch you.

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    "(2) find a loophole and if I was the cop and have a loophole, you're fucked."

    Yea, all Hail the Mighty LLight.

    April 23, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    The Executioner is at a decisive dilemma because if he kills me during the day round, then that means you can all switch your votes to someone else, but if he doesn't kill me, it furthers their strategy that puts suspicion on me.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    So is white lancer though, so for now he gets my MVP vote for "he deserves to win, even if we find out later that's he mafia", a title which you once held in my mind.

    I'm not entirely sure what I did/said recently to warrant a statement like this, but thanks anyway. Unless you're Mafia and you're trying to bring me down with you. ;)

    You're suggesting that the Executioner wouldn't kill you even if you were a Townie so that we would remain suspicious of you next round and not direct our attention elsewhere? IMO the Mafia wouldn't really benefit from that any more than they would just killing you when they had the chance, and I would hope that the Vigilante would take you out tonight if the Mafia didn't, meaning we'd be free to turn our attention elsewhere next round anyway.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I'd also like to point out that Xhin is far less active. Remember, he was also a townie with leadership qualities in the earlier games. Now, there's not much to read about.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    I had definitely noticed that. Xhin is a sneaky one for sure.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Well my posting style is kind of a double edged sword (but meshes very well with my out of game personality, I might add). On the Mafia's plus side, suspicion on a known townie (to them), would be the perfect smokescreen, but for them as well, it outs the suspicion of suspected mafia when I die for the people who wrongly voted for me. The commonality rests on my death or my vote No Kill strategy.

    If you don't want to be seen as a suspect, then vote No Kill and we'll continue on our merry way of least risk No Kills as the Vigilante takes out whomever they suspect, even if it is me. Consequently if loophole still exists, the mafia risks taking a serious blow to the bowels because by now they have probably narrowed down their suspects of the cop role to me or you or one of the silent roles.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Of course that's still not to say that there are people who don't vote for me who are also mafia. I just felt that I had to point this out again.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight



    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    #85

    Haha, 43 is me.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    5 Mafia. 1 no kill. 4 not votings. Hint Hint.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Mafia:

    LLight
    Knuckles
    Redack
    White Lancer
    Roxas

    Wut? If I and Roxas were mafia, and LLight as well, WHY would we go after him?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    5 Mafia. 1 no kill. 4 not votings. Hint Hint.

    That's a really terrible line of thinking. Only the most idiotic of Mafia teams would be so transparent when there's very little to gain from it.

    This has been a really...interesting round. A lot is dependent on whether LLight really is Mafia, but I could see the game going any number of ways from this point.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    So just to clarify, by the way they are talking here, along with their sudden no votes (and Llights no kill) when it's SO obvious that we need to vote Here are Y suspects for Mafia:

    Llight

    #85

    White Lancer

    Redack

    Xhin

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Lancer, I see your mafia way of thinking here. For Redack, I never seen him in action, so I can only assume. Xhin has been shady, and strangely silent this whole game at stranger times. #85 is always talk-active, and aggressive but for some reason he's not anymore.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    It's not lancer.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    It's not lancer.

    Whats not?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    when it's SO obvious that we need to vote

    Why, exactly, is it obvious that we need to vote? What proof do you have that LLight is even Mafia? And LLight is going to die anyway, regardless of how we vote, so our votes don't even matter.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    However, I think Redack may just be new. Plus he was silenced, which I forgot about, and though the mafia could of silenced one of their own to throw us off, his replacement would be

    Shadowwalked at this point.

    Shadowwalked was quick to defend Llight for no reason. He's also silent, and skulking as usual.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Shadowwalked only becomes a decent suspect if it turns out I'm mafia, but as usual, it's still a flawed observation due to you not actually knowing which roles are what.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Why, exactly, is it obvious that we need to vote? What proof do you have that LLight is even Mafia? And LLight is going to die anyway, regardless of how we vote, so our votes don't even matter.

    We need to vote cause if we don't, we just leave the Mafia ANOTHER chance to take one of ours. Thats all we are rly doing. Plus the vig may strike at the wrong person again for all we know. It should be up to the Town. Not rely on some Faceless vigilante.

    What proof? WHAT PROOF? LOOK AROUND THIS THREAD AND LAST. Tbh. Did see NOTHING that entire time? I mean do I REALLY have to spell it out for you?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Shadowwalked only becomes a decent suspect if it turns out I'm mafia, but as usual, it's still a flawed observation due to you not actually knowing which roles are what.

    With that logic, ALL observations are flawed unless someone is the cop. But you can't deny the reasons are piling up.

    BTW, glad you were smart enough to see that last round I was baiting you, trying to get you to speak up, and slip up. I had nothing but baseless suspicions, but as you went on and on, your own words started to condemn you. It was smart of you to shut up more, but it won't save you now. I am guessing you are the executioner, but Mafia is nearly for certain.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    What proof? WHAT PROOF? LOOK AROUND THIS THREAD AND LAST. Tbh. Did see NOTHING that entire time? I mean do I REALLY have to spell it out for you?

    I saw a few players who claimed that LLight was playing differently than normal, not proof. It's telling that you can't cite anything--you're going with your gut, as usual. LLight may well be Mafia--I really can't be sure--but the evidence against him isn't nearly as strong as you make it out to be.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    @Knuckles


    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    I saw a few players who claimed that LLight was playing differently than normal, not proof. It's telling that you can't cite anything--you're going with your gut, as usual. LLight may well be Mafia--I really can't be sure--but the evidence against him isn't nearly as strong as you make it out to be.

    It WAS my gut until llight exposed himself. Let me give you a recap. AGAIN.

    Llight No voted right away despite the obviousness that we can no longer just sit around.

    He was NEVER this desperate to defend himself, just like he was NEVER mafia.

    Teddy was implying to Llight that he is a role of importance, teddy dies the next round.

    He was so concerned about the executioner, most likely because he was afraid that if he had 6 votes on him, and the executioner didn't kill him, we'd know he was mafia.

    And a few other reason I am sure i am forgetting from the last round. These reason are GOOD ENOUGH alone regardless to lynch him though.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Now your just trolling, Llight. After you are lynched, this will finally be overwith, THEN, your lies will either be exposed, or somehow coincidence just really wasn't in your favor. Either way though, the odds stack to you being a constant, and devious liar this whole game, and thus mafia.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    What will you do if you find out that I'm a townie?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Most likely, I will die and be found a townie. But ce la vie. You can't deny that the reasons piled against you, and I am doing the logical thing by voting you at this point.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    There's benefit to my death regardless of role. Can you say the same about yours?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Your just trying to mindscrew us the way I see it. I never said it isn't possible you are a townie. But if I die, at least I did what I damn well thought I should have before I did.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    LLight's No Kill vote was consistent with what he advocated previously. Whether that indicates that he's anti-Town is up for debate, but the consistency is there.

    He hasn't seemed especially desperate to me, or too far away from how he acted early in the second game (which, iirc, was the only other time he came close to being lynched). The fact that he has never been Mafia means nothing; the roles are randomized so his chance of being Mafia was equal to your chance.

    Teddy implied that he was an important role in an open post. Everyone in the game could see it, not just LLight.

    He could just as easily been concerned about the Executioner because the Executioner could kill him if he reached a certain amount of votes. Any sane Town-sided player would want to avoid reaching the Executioner's threshold, especially with the Governor out of play.

    If this is your idea of proof, I definitely don't want you on a jury. You took your gut instinct and tried to find evidence that fit what you already thought; forgive me if I try to look at the entire picture. I'm not saying that LLight isn't Mafia--at this point he's dead meat already so it doesn't even matter. But we need to stop being so eager to go after people based on such meager "proofs," and we need to stop thinking that the Mafia are all going to be playing the same way so we can identify them all in one fell swoop. Very few Mafias are simply going to gift-wrap themselves for the Town to pick off at their leisure.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I never said you there was actually proof directly. Theres just so many reasons to think he is mafia. Some that I forget as well, but I know they are there, and I am not going to read through that long long post again to find them, or the first post for that matter. But I admit, I might as well shut up now, and watch how it turns out when is lynched.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    There's benefit to my death regardless of role. Can you say the same about yours?

    I think there is benefit to your death, although it strikes me that this is different than what you were saying before. Once I find out for sure what you are, I'll have a better idea of where to take my suspicions.

    I think we've gotten pretty much everything we're going to get from this round. I'm in favor of ending it and moving on, since the end result is a foregone conclusion and we're arguing in circles.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Knukles called me out for not being a talker so I'm gonna adress that real quick.

    Last game, I correctly identified you first round as mafia and no one listened and I died next day. No point in pointing fingers, it just makes me look suspicious like I am trying to cause conflict. At best I'd sway 2 or 3 people.

    I was ready to vote LLight off last day and take the gamble, but we lost 3. It's getting to the wire and we can't make a mistake. I'm open to a vote but I'm not too convinced of anything.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    #85

    I am going to not vote for Llight mainly cause after him posting, I feel he isn't Mafia.

    I really don't know what to make of all of this. I have to look through the threads again. For now, I vote randomly.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    Remember people, the tide is going against Llight, there is a FAIR chance that mafia will change their votes to Llight to not draw attention themselves acting like they are for a different reason.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    LLight, if you're the cop, then you need to reveal your information NOW before the executioner kills you.

    Also, I'm the Vigilante.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    I am going to not vote for Llight mainly cause after him posting, I feel he isn't Mafia.

    Helius Randomly Voted for LLight

    LOL

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Crap! I'm trying that again. Sorry, Llight.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    The Executioner will have to kill me first.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    @#85, I never said you aren't townie sided. I just said I suspected you, i'm throwing out what I think for the town.

    Also, I'm the Vigilante.

    I think this is sheer bowlshit. I doubt the vig would be stupid enough to just tell everyone he is the vig when we need him now more than before. But i suppose it's possible. What IS the logic behind saying that now, Xhin? The Mafia will kill you for sure, if not the town for thinking you are mafia.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    As I said before, role reveal is generally a bad idea. I seriously hope you are not. There's no benefit to a Vigilante's death. Remember what I said about role reveals. If the Vigilante dies, we lose a card in our hand, but now that he's revealed himself, you can vote him out another round.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Revealing it means that if they don't kill me, it'll make me seem like I'm mafia and YOU guys will kill me next round. It's some protection for myself.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Revealing it means that if they don't kill me, it'll make me seem like I'm mafia and YOU guys will kill me next round. It's some protection for myself.

    Ok, so you get killed, and the town suffers. Wheres the benefit for ANYONE?

    Because what I make of this, is Xhin is mafia trying to protect Llight because he has a more important mafia role.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Also, I'm the Vigilante.

    I could believe it, actually. Figured the Vig had to be one of the people who didn't target LLight last round. But why go for CtR or Teddy?

    LLight, if you're the cop, then you need to reveal your information NOW before the executioner kills you.

    I thought he already had, which is why I stopped going back and forth with him...but I thought one of the pieces of information he dropped was that you were 'suspicious' AKA Mafia, and if you're the Vigilante that's obviously not the case.

    I am going to not vote for Llight mainly cause after him posting, I feel he isn't Mafia.

    I'm not convinced he's Mafia either, but he's going to die no matter what we do. If we think there's more work to be done this round, I can rescind my vote for him.

    The only way I see to keep LLight alive after the early bandwagon jumping would be if we got lucky and killed the Executioner, but I'm not even sure if that would work. Plus I have no idea who that could be and I don't want to accidentally lynch another Townie.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Oh and:

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Also, don't randomize your vote. Switch it to No Kill if you're with me.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Xhin. What is the real reasoning behind this? Because I see none except trying save your supposed mafia buddy Llight because he has more important role.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Revealing it means that if they don't kill me, it'll make me seem like I'm mafia and YOU guys will kill me next round. It's some protection for myself.

    Haha, interesting strategy. Way to try to survive during the night just to be killed during the day.

    And what the heck? I'll vote No Kill. If it turns out that LLight isn't Mafia, I'll be able to say that I told you so. :P

    ...of course that means you get to say the same to me if he is Mafia. -_-

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I still don't see what you're trying to accomplish with this, Xhin. LLight looks doomed to me either way. But whatever, I'll go with it.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    First you both go to not voting, but then you go to no kill when it seems desirable. OF COURSE. There is no logic between either of your actions unless you both (White Lancer and Xhin) are Mafia as well.

    In fact, they prolly hate what I am saying so much that they will prolly kill, or silence me this night round, unless of course they withdraw because I said this.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I could believe it, actually. Figured the Vig had to be one of the people who didn't target LLight last round. But why go for CtR or Teddy?

    At the time, the "No Vote" shtick was getting to me so I chose someone randomly. Obviously that didn't turn out good :/

    Xhin. What is the real reasoning behind this? Because I see none except trying save your supposed mafia buddy Llight because he has more important role.

    That didn't work when Helius did it and it won't work if I did it either. When that happened, Helius AND the other mafia died. Very stupid strategy.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Then WHY are you saying you the vig now?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Also, don't randomize your vote. Switch it to No Kill if you're with me.

    I randomized vote because if I vote for you, I'm Mafia. If I vote for No Kill, I'm Mafia. The only possible way I can avoid this accusation from happening is to either Not Vote or Randomize. Not Voting isn't desirable because of No Kill which is basically the same at this point. So I randomized it.

    You wanted everyone to ~Roll~ and now you don't... could you please make up your mind!?!? Haha

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    As such, there is no logic to the things you are saying either. Fair enough? It's also a bad decision to silence you for one reason alone: chaos. Darkening, isn't it?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    First you both go to not voting, but then you go to no kill when it seems desirable. OF COURSE. There is no logic between either of your actions unless you both (White Lancer and Xhin) are Mafia as well.

    Gotta love getting lectured by Knukles on logic.

    That didn't work when Helius did it and it won't work if I did it either. When that happened, Helius AND the other mafia died. Very stupid strategy.

    Agreed. I nearly panicked when I saw that Helius had tried it in that one game. XD

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I'm just not sold on LLight, he seems to be playing a pretty open game. Theres certainly someone playing a sneaky game, we need to look out for and read what people say more carefully.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    #85

    Then WHY are you saying you the vig now?

    I don't have to tell you since you're just going to twist it around to make me seem like a mafia, like you did the other game when I was the Doctor.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Now you are No voting as well. Don't buy into their shit, guys. The only thing the mafia would want us to do at this point us is no vote, or kill one of our own. And since we are going after Llight who is very likely mafia, they are going to no vote.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Which one of them did you take out last night, Xhin?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    A vote for No Kill ensures the town is not influenced wrongly due to gut reasons. The sum of the Vigilante's decision is more important than a divided collective. A vote for me is a risk that the mafia is taking because there is the possibility that I have loopholes to stay in the game, none of which are specific to any role, but are especially devastating if I am the cop.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Gotta love getting lectured by Knukles on logic

    Something a typically desperate Mafia would say to defend himself when he can't.

    I don't have to tell you since you're just going to twist it around to make me seem like a mafia, like you did the other game when I was the Doctor.

    Give me a good reason why you are doing this (like you didn't last game), and I may believe you.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    A vote for No Kill ensures the town is not influenced wrongly due to gut reasons. The sum of the Vigilante's decision is more important than a divided collective. A vote for me is a risk that the mafia is taking because there is the possibility that I have loopholes to stay in the game, none of which are specific to any role, but are especially devastating if I am the cop.

    Bowl. We relied on the vig last round, and that failed hard. We need to act, and you know it.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    "A vote for me is a risk that the mafia is taking because there is the possibility that I have loopholes to stay in the game, none of which are specific to any role, but are especially devastating if I am the cop."

    And the fact that you're threatening to use those loopholes again is what really bothers me.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Also @ Helius. What reason do you have to be so reluctant toward voting Llight?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    We could have lost 3 townies last round. It's a far cry from something that's not expected. Nothing to be surprised about.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    We could have lost 3 townies last round. It's a far cry from something that's not expected. Nothing to be surprised about.

    OH, so if it's SO predictable, why did you tell us to rely on the vig?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Something a typically desperate Mafia would say to defend himself when he can't.

    Oh, I've got plenty of ways to defend myself, but I don't feel the need to do so right now. I'll elaborate further on my defense if I come under fire, assuming I'm not silenced of course.

    there is the possibility that I have loopholes to stay in the game

    You keep saying this, and I have no idea what you mean. The Doctor/Governor are both dead so the only way I can see you staying alive is if BOTH the Vigilante and the Executioner decide not to attack you. That's very unlikely, especially if you're Town-sided.

    And anything not involving the game will result in you being host-killed and probably banned by Yeano.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Now you are No voting as well. Don't buy into their shit, guys. The only thing the mafia would want us to do at this point us is no vote, or kill one of our own.

    After randomly killing a power role, the last thing I want to do is kill the cop. At this point, his reveal will make or break the game.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Yea, if it looks like a {<OO} and talks like a {<OO} and walks like a {<OO} it's probably not a {<OO} in Yeano's eyes.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    After randomly killing a power role, the last thing I want to do is kill the cop. At this point, his reveal will make or break the game.


    Llight NEVER claimed the cop. The only thing he EVER claimed was regular Townie.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    @Knuckles

    Gut. What reason do you have for voting for him two rounds in a row?

    I'm not convinced he is Mafia. And I don't particularly like having my decisions question. :/

    I do believe you said something along the lines of:

    Something a typically desperate Mafia would say to defend himself when he can't.

    :/ This is disturbing to me because Mafia members want to manipulate votes.

    And I have already stated:

    I randomized vote because if I vote for you [Llight], I'm Mafia. If I vote for No Kill, I'm Mafia. The only possible way I can avoid this accusation from happening is to either Not Vote or Randomize. Not Voting isn't desirable because of No Kill which is basically the same at this point. So I randomized it.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    A loophole is in favour of the town because the mafia know who other mafia members are, the town does not. If I die and my role is revealed as a townie, you will inherently trust what I have to say and others are exposed. If I die and my role is revealed as a cop, you will definitely trust what I have to say. Just saying now that there's more than one loophole that I have in mind.

    If I don't die, then the Vigilante or Mafia are expected to kill me. A Vigilante kill might be better spent on other suspects rather than myself, so leaving the town to investigate other people for discrepancies. You'd be lost without me, my only regret is not talking about the solid facts and statistics right now. The town is shaken because they lost two roles, but you could have lost three last round. It's not as bad as it looks if everyone just keeps calm and sticks to the No Kill vote.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    ALSO XHIN. If you are who you say you are, WHO DID YOU KILL? Teddy, or CtR.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Gut. What reason do you have for voting for him two rounds in a row?

    It's not gut any longer, I was just testing him the previous round.

    :/ This is disturbing to me because Mafia members want to manipulate votes.

    Not always, in fact a lot of times it would be best if the mafia just sits back and lets people no vote. Like the Mafia is prolly trying to influence people to do now.

    I'm not convinced he is Mafia. And I don't particularly like having my decisions question. :/

    Questioning is one of the fews ways we will ever have anything.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Llight NEVER claimed the cop. The only thing he EVER claimed was regular Townie.

    I never said he was. But voting to lynch anyone means there's a chance of us killing the Cop.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Not Voting doesn't count towards the total votes, but a No Kill counts towards not killing anyone. Consequently, if there is a tie between votes, no one is killed. The Executioner on the other hand is still free to act, but doesn't necessarily need to at the moment because the votes are in the mafia's favour of killing me. They might do it if they have no other choice or waste the mafia kill on someone they might suspect as a power role. Either way it makes sense to kill me, but for that very reason it would be a good idea not to as it limits the mafia killing options in case the town is wrong.

    They can kill in their favour by (1) Town vote, (2) Executioner kill, and (3) Mafia kill. Voting for No Kill ensures only 1 townie dies in the night round, plus the 50/50 outcome of a 5/13 38.46% chance of killing mafia vs a 1/16 6.25% chance of voting a mafia member (which from my perspective is actually a 100% chance of voting out a townie).

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    I'm changing my vote now. :/ Wheels within wheels.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    Xhin continues to dodge all questions. Only making it worse on himself. The real vig will prolly take care of him unless he is silenced, but if not, it seems best to kill him next round unless he speaks up.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Helius... you want the Mafia to just have another swing at us? Seriously? Even after the Mafia would predictably put themselves in with the no votes? You want to endanger yourself, and the town like that? I'm going to have to rethink my suspicions for sure.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Llight

    Helius

    Shadowwalked

    Xhin

    White Lancer

    Subject to change, of course.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    you want the Mafia to just have another swing at us? Seriously? Even after the Mafia would predictably put themselves in with the no votes?

    Think of it this way, the mafia have 3 arms: (1) Town vote, (2) Executioner kill, and (3) Mafia kill, voting No Kill is like fighting a one armed man. Are your chances better?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Bowl. Two or one more townie sided will just die this round. We need to at least take a mafia with us, and you fricking know it.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    May change

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Hahaaha, it better.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Chief, imo you might as well help one of the majorities at this point. Which is No vote, and Llight. Of course in my view, Llight seems the much more preferable option though.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    We need to at least take a mafia with us, and you fricking know it.

    Well, I could always randomly pick someone again tonight. There's a chance I'd pick the Cop though.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    you want the Mafia to just have another swing at us? Seriously? Even after the Mafia would predictably put themselves in with the no votes?

    :/ I think the Mafia is already taking a swing at us. Llight is innocent. I'm calling it now.

    Mafia:

    Hezekiah

    Knuckles

    Roxas

    Majora's Mask

    Feral

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    I was checking the number of people visiting at the top of the page and seen Yeano and he just disappeared in a flash.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Or you could consider the fact that Llight could very well be Mafia and vote for him. Didn't think of that. Or did you...

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    The only sensible thing Knuckles has said this entire game is that last part. Vote for me or vote No Kill. There's no room for "oh, we made an error". The Vigilante can say that by himself and will bare that burden so you won't have to.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    :/ I think the Mafia is already taking a swing at us. Llight is innocent. I'm calling it now.

    Mafia:

    Hezekiah

    Knuckles

    Roxas

    Majora's Mask

    Feral

    Well I know you got two wrong. Roxas isn't Mafia sided for sure, but you will just have to trust me on that, and neither am I. HA. You think you are so sure, but you will be proven wrong after my planned death, and the town will wise up, and wipe you mafia out.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    "Chief, imo you might as well help one of the majorities at this point. Which is No vote, and Llight."


    Thanks Knux, and with all due respect. If I change my vote it will be because I want to and not because someone's trying to convince me to.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    The only sensible thing Knuckles has said this entire game is that last part. Vote for me or vote No Kill. There's no room for "oh, we made an error". The Vigilante can say that by himself and will bare that burden so you won't have to.

    Yet again, you are trying to pull the "I am smart, Knukles is an idiot" card to defend yourself, Mafia.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Thanks Knux, and with all due respect. If I change my vote it will be because I want to and not because someone's trying to convince me to.

    I totally understand that man. so much chaos. I'm pretty sure you are townie sided too, though based on observation. I trust your judgement.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    All I can say is that I am indeed a townie. As I've said, it's up for y'all to decide whether or not to believe me. May as well state my suspicions while I can, because I'm positive I will not be active among the living next day.

    LLight (obviously)
    Helius
    Redack
    Feral
    Shadowwalked

  • At first I thought Xhin was in the Mafia, but I believe him when he says he's the Vig.
  • While Knux is a definite wild card, I do not think he is Mafia. He would have blown up by now.

    But hey, the call is your own to make.

    • April 24, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    White Lancer made a fatal mistake by asking Xhin(who is 100% Townie, btw) who he killed as vig. The only way either of Xhin's answers could mean anything to him is if he already knows the answer, being involved in a death himself. If he was the vig, he would be dumb to interregate Xhin for said role. Therefor, White Lancer must be Mafia. His defending of LLight only increases my cetainty of LLight being Mafia as well.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Feral

    At this rate, the final vote will be no vote, or Llight.

    I urge you all to choose carefully to those who haven't chosen.

    Imo, no killing is just too much of a waste, and too much of a risk on our part.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    White Lancer made a fatal mistake by asking Xhin(who is 100% Townie, btw)

    100% you say? How can you be so sure? He's not one of my prime suspects, but still. How do you know?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Damn it, even I am starting to have trouble wrapping my head around all of this.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Excellent point, Feral. I'm pretty sure you are a townie now for pointing that out. No *sane* Mafia member would throw his allies under the bus.

    So we have white lancer and LLight. Mafia may well have silenced their own in Shadowwalked to draw any possible suspicions away from him. Redack I'm kind of 50/50 on at the moment. And Helius is about 55/45 in my eyes.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    I'm so confused. If White Lancer and Llight are Mafia. And Feral is 100% sure, he'd have to be the cop. But then he could just be mafia trying to pretend to be the cop. But then Xhin made no sense back there. But then what if Feral and Xhin are both Mafia trying to defend each other. Or if Xhin is the Godfather. But then theres Helius. Is he fearmongering, and rly stupid enough to put such faith in Llight? Or just Mafia as I would assume? Then Shadowwalked, he never does much making it all the more complicated.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Updated Mafia Rules.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Yeano

    But then theres Helius. Is he fearmongering, and rly stupid enough to put such faith in Llight? Or just Mafia as I would assume?

    Honestly, Llight is consistent with his game play from previous games. :/ I don't know why you can't see that Knuckles. I could be wrong on this, but my "gut" says otherwise.

    I'm as confused as you are on all of this. I don't want to believe the people I have listed are Mafia... but some of this makes sense. I know Llight is innocent from his style of play. If he dies, I tend to agree that we will not view those who voted for him as town friendly people.

    You kind of swayed my vote trying to pressure me into changing. Yes, my vote was driven by emotion; however, you aren't winning any points in my eyes by questioning my intelligence. Kind of a dick move.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    What's new?
    Or do I have to read them all and hope I remember what was there before the change.

    Man you people are making my hair hurt.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Honestly, Llight is consistent with his game play from previous games. :/ I don't know why you can't see that Knuckles. I could be wrong on this, but my "gut" says otherwise.

    He really isn't... and the only way that I see why you would say that is if you just want to defend him, and you are also mafia. Tbph.

    I'm as confused as you are on all of this. I don't want to believe the people I have listed are Mafia... but some of this makes sense. I know Llight is innocent from his style of play. If he dies, I tend to agree that we will not view those who voted for him as town friendly people.

    And what if you are wrong, and he is Mafia, you realize the town will come after you.

    You kind of swayed my vote trying to pressure me into changing. Yes, my vote was driven by emotion; however, you aren't winning any points in my eyes by questioning my intelligence. Kind of a dick move.

    I wasn't pressuring you? I just was questioning you. =_-

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    The rule I added has been an implied rule since game 1. I just wanted to clarify since LLight wants to be a lawyer.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Yeano

    The rule I added has been an implied rule since game 1. I just wanted to clarify since LLight wants to be a lawyer.

    I checked it, and I didn't rly notice a change. :/

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I think it has to do with the Appeals system.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    He really isn't... and the only way that I see why you would say that is if you just want to defend him, and you are also mafia. Tbph.

    The only thing that is different is he wants the Vig to kill someone. He's trying to limit human error (which is something I totally understand). If Xhin is the Vig (and I'm assuming he is), I trust his judgment in regards to who he killed and why.

    And what if you are wrong, and he is Mafia, you realize the town will come after you.

    The same could be said for you. :/ Either way, townies are going to die if we try either option.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    God, don't make me laugh like that. Now my hair and my ribs hurt.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Man you people are making my hair hurt.

    1) I'll trade you for sinus congestion.
    2) What do you mean "you people?" {:P} jk

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    The only thing that is different is he wants the Vig to kill someone. He's trying to limit human error (which is something I totally understand). If Xhin is the Vig (and I'm assuming he is), I trust his judgment in regards to who he killed and why.

    I could argue this again, but it's pretty much pointless. There are like almost 400 replies in total for this game, it is now far too much a pain to point out everywhere he was different. Plus that was not the basis on my accusations and suspicions for Llight.

    The same could be said for you. :/ Either way, townies are going to die if we try either option

    True, but I did what I thought I should do, and didn't back down.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    "I'll trade you for sinus congestion."

    Make it a glass of red wine and you got a deal. Well maybe 3 glasses.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Ok. I'm just going to lay out my plan right here.

    *We Lynch Llight, and see where it goes from there.

    *If Xhin isn't the vig, the real vig will most likely Lynch him unless he was silenced, so I guess we will leave that to the vig.

    *Next round, I think we should definitely CONSIDER White Lancer given all that happened.

    *Next Night in the next round, I think the vig should take a chance on Helius. He rly does seem like Mafia even though I want to think otherwise.

    Thats all I have for now.

    Also, if I am not here the next round, I was obviously silenced or killed.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Shadowwalked. He HAS to be silenced.

    He was the only one not dead that didn't post here...

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Shadowwalked prolly isn't Mafia, guys. Unless he's being purposely silent, and the Mafia chose not to silence anyone this round...hm...

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Only if I get some too.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    Roxas. You put Shadowwalked in your suspicions, still think so?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I just don't think the mafia would waste ANOTHER silence.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I'm still not totally clear on how the Executioner works; is it a mid-day kill (like how Zanic died) or an end of day kill, resolved at the same time as the Lynch result?

    In any event, I'm sticking (for now, at least) with my earlier choice of LLight. What I'm seeing is the following:
    1) He gets over a third of the vote during Day 3
    2) Had he been a townie, Executioner should've gone after him
    3) Executioner didn't go after him
    4) LLight is not a Townie
    5) LLight is mafia

    -

    Given that Xhin has revealed himself as the Vigilante, I'd hope that he chose to kill CtR Black last night; Teddy used the same (admittedly poor) strategy of last game as pretty heavily implying that he was a special town-sided role.

    -

    -

    In closing, I really want LLight lynched today. I don't have any special info to point at, but we simply can't afford to continue No Killing.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    thing is that if the real vig kills Xhin, or any mafia for that matter, the thug will die instead. So we can't let that confuse us, and think that Xhin IS the vig for sure. Assuming that Xhin is mafia anyway.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Getting ready to go to bed, but before I do I need to bring out 3 things that bother me.

    1. If Xhin is the Vigilante, why would he announce it and put a target on his back for the mafia to shoot at? Knowing that we can not afford to keep losing townies like this.

    2. Why would White Lancer ask Xhin who he killed?
    How would he know if Xhin was telling the truth. He would have to know who the Mafia killed in order to know if Xhin was telling the truth.

    3. Why did Xhin not tell him who he killed? Tell us all for that matter. Xhin already made himself a target by claiming to be the Vig. So what was there to lose?

    I'm not sure what roles they or anyone else is other then myself and the dead dudes.

    But I do know this. We've lost 3 townies and a Ghoul and if we don't at least try to take out a Mafia, then they will pick us off like flies on shit.

    I am changing my vote for now to give me some time to think about what these 2 guys and LLight are doing and why.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    White Lancer made a fatal mistake by asking Xhin(who is 100% Townie, btw) who he killed as vig.

    Not a mistake, I was merely curious. If I were Mafia I would already know who Xhin killed, because it would be whoever I didn't kill.

    And Hezekiah, I still don't think that's 100% proof that LLight is Mafia. He very well could be, but the Executioner could have chosen not to go after him since the Governor was probably going to save him. If the Executioner had gone after LLight and the Governor had saved him, then we would know that he was most likely (not 100%, but most likely) town-sided. If LLight was Town-sided, it was better for the Executioner to throw suspicion on LLight by not killing him. At worst the Vigilante gets suspicious and kills LLight during the night, but at best (and the possible scenario here) LLight survives for the next round and draws suspicion away from the Mafia.

    I'm not saying that's what's happening, as LLight could still be alive simply by virtue of being Mafia himself. But I'm going to laugh so hard if LLight dies and turns out to be Town-sided.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I think the thing that bothers me about the whole LLight thing is that everyone is so focused on this one train of thought that they're ignoring other possibilities. If you're not voting LLight, you're automatically suspect...and, more importantly and dangerously, you're automatically safe if you're voting for LLight. That's allowing those who are voting for LLight a free pass, whether LLight is Mafia or not.

    Besides, there would be no point in arguing on LLight's behalf if you were Mafia. It just draws attention to yourself on behalf of an already compromised Mafia member with one foot in the grave.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    This is total bullshit. Like I've said before, can't help but be suspicsious of the people who write huge ass blocks of texts with their rationalizations. Why? Because Lancer did the same thing when we were Mafia in Game 1, and it seems like the logical thing to do to make yourself seem innocent. We should take advantage of the executioner kill and test our theories, but for now I'll wait to vote.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Malas

    I've done the same thing in every game. ;)

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I know, you make things really hard.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Malas

    Either way, if Llight isn't killed this round, too many questions won't be answered.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I've made up my mind. I'm going for the cautious approach and we'll see what happens in the night to come!

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    ... Redack. I hate you noaw. But seriously, you HAD to go and no vote to make this all the more difficult. Plus you may well be Mafia anyway, so i guess it makes sense for you to do that.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I haven't read the entire thread yet but I wanted to reply to this:

    A loophole is in favour of the town because the mafia know who other mafia members are, the town does not. If I die and my role is revealed as a townie, you will inherently trust what I have to say and others are exposed. If I die and my role is revealed as a cop, you will definitely trust what I have to say. Just saying now that there's more than one loophole that I have in mind.

    You've been bringing up this loophole thing for a while now and TBH after giving it some thought the assumption I'm drawing from it is that you're the cop that wants to die as to have his role confirmed and then essentially "cheat" to reveal your information. This would IMO explain a lot of things that I've found odd about you: More specifically your ridiculous "KILL ALL COP CLAIMS" strategy which made the least sense to me and was the major reason I found you suspicious this game.

    I'm changing my vote to no-kill, but I don't see it doing any good. I'm being completely serious here: If you're the cop you should have freaking said so last round or way earlier this round.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    We now have 5 votes for no kill. There is a decent Chance they are all Mafia.

    Redack, Llight, Helius, Xhin and Lancer.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    -_- Eh screw it, lets just let the mafia have their way, and lose.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    For the record, Executioner kill takes place at the end of the day round (at the same time as the lynching).

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Yeano

    Well played, Mask. I promise the next round you can lynch me if I survive the night round because it meets one of my requirements.

    We can afford a vote for No Kill, but is at the same time a wasted Mafia/Vigilante kill if I die in the night round. It's more devastating for the mafia though, so I won't blame the Vigilante if he decides to kill me because I have accounted for that outcome. It's also not clear on what rules Yeano changed so even he might know what I might do, but now I hope you all understand the seriousness of this trump card.

    Keep in mind this is just a game so {troll}

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    So be it, hopefully we're right.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Malas

    We now have 5 votes for no kill. There is a decent Chance they are all Mafia.

    Redack, Llight, Helius, Xhin and Lancer.

    So anyone that disagrees with Knuckles is Mafia? Your logic is undeniable. In that it's flawed {:P} (especially where you think his chances of being mafia are higher just because he hasn't previous games... That's not really how it works but I won't go into the boring details there).

    However, maintain your false belief that I'm mafia if you desire :) I'm sticking with my no kill. I want to see what the vigilante and mafia do in this night round.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    Yeah I have some minor suspicions, we will see if they increase tommorow.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    #85

    Either way, if Llight isn't killed this round, too many questions won't be answered.

    Part of me actually agrees with this. So much of the Town's suspicions are grounded in whether or not LLight is Mafia that we'll have difficulties moving forward if he doesn't die. I'm interested to see what the Executioner does, though. I am, however, inclined to say that the Vigilante should kill LLight if the Executioner doesn't. I definitely don't think that the Vigilante should kill randomly tonight, though.

    For next round, no matter what happens, I think it's very important that we NOT cast votes early. Even a single Townie vote against a non-Mafia could cost us the game with the Executioner around, since the Mafia could just pile on our votes. We should discuss the situation and decide as a Town what to do before any of us actually pull the trigger on a vote.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    As an aside, I still don't see why it's so important for LLight to wait until next round (or until his supposed "loophole") to post information if he's the Cop. Seems to me that withholding said info is riskier than necessary and it would be better to have it out in the open.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I am certain that LLight and Lancer are Mafia. Helius probably too.

    I am also so fed up with LLight's ability to weasel he way out of it, and get everybody's head up his ass, that I am ready to lynch myself in frustration. But either way, I would be astonished if I am not killed over night or silenced next round.

    Also, I am NOT the cop. I am a regular Townie. I just have a dark secret(that only President Yeano knows) that I can't reveal without being host killed. It is NOT Mafia or special role related.

    (Also, we now have 12 votes, so this round will end as soon as Yeano get's on. Time for last minute actions...)

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Feral

    You really like to make broad claims, don't you, Feral? Especially when you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm still mystified as to how you say you know 100% that CtR was targeted by the Vig as there's no way you should have that information unless you were Vig/Mafia. Comments like that alone make me less inclined to trust what you say. Well, that and the fact that I know you're wrong on at least some of what you claim to be certain on.

    But either way, I would be astonished if I am not killed over night or silenced next round.

    I think we've had at least three people say something like this during this day round, and I'm not sure we've ever had someone say this and actually wind up silenced/dead. XD

    Also, we now have 12 votes, so this round will end as soon as Yeano get's on.

    Not how it works. Yeano closes the round once one option receives 60% of the total votes, not once a certain amount of votes have been cast.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Also, I think it's a bad idea to say explicitly that you're not the Cop, because that just helps the Mafia to narrow it down. Probably best if you edit that part out of your post.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I know thorugh process of elimination. The vig wouldn't kill Teddy, someone known for having an important town sided role. The Mafia would do that.

    72 hours or 9 votes. (5 votes needed for 1/3 vote).

    We have 12 votes, 7 for no kill. Fits the conditions Yeano posted in the OP. I suppose that was a lie, then. Not accusing you or Yeano, just confused.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Feral

    So we're really going to place our faith in Xhin to make a smart kill tonight, given how terrible his choice ended up being yesterday? I do not see this ending well for the town.

    We need to kill LLight today. There's no reason not to. Evidence points to him being mafia. Even if he's not, it'd free Xhin up to target somebody else who he's suspicious of.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    Feral, it's 9 votes for a particular option. Lancer has that right.

    However, not much reason for him to edit his cop disclaim out of his post, since the mafia (you) has already seen it.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    I'm not sure where your confusion comes from, Feral, but it certainly doesn't fulfill the conditions in the OP. The round ends with a 60% majority (9 votes in this case, as specified in the above post), or after 72 hours. The total amount of votes cast doesn't matter.

    And hezekiah, I frankly don't want Xhin free to target somebody else tonight. That didn't work out last night and there's a chance he could hit the Cop tonight if he tries it again.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    However, not much reason for him to edit his cop disclaim out of his post, since the mafia (you) has already seen it.

    Bah, you people just don't even consider that your theories are wrong, do you. That narrow-mindedness is going to cost the Town the game.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I trust my own theory more then the techno-cockamamie coming from LLight that everybody is so desperate to get a peace of. If anything is going to cost this town the game, it's this unfounded loyalty to a guy who has nothing more then charisma and a big mouth.

    And you are obviously his right-hand man.

    I'm not sure where your confusion comes from, Feral, but it certainly doesn't fulfill the conditions in the OP.

    It's called misunderstanding what he said. Not hard to confuse 9 votes for one option and 9 votes total.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Feral

    Why in the world would I put myself out there to save someone who was essentially already dead? If I were Mafia along with LLight, I would have thrown him under the bus the instant he reached 5 votes, because him not being killed by the Executioner would be a tell-tale sign for the Vigilante to kill him in the night. I didn't make it to the end of Game 2 as Mafia by injecting myself into hopeless situations. I've pointed out several times that trying to save LLight is futile at this point, and it would be downright idiotic for his fellow Mafia members to bring suspicion upon themselves to save someone who couldn't be saved.

    Not to mention that I was the one who called for the Vigilante to kill LLight last night round. If it turns out that LLight is Mafia, there is ZERO possible benefit to the Mafia from that, because if the Vigilante had gone along with the plan and LLight had turned out to be Mafia, the Thug would have died and LLight's Mafia status would have been confirmed. That plan of action could only have helped the Town and the only reason it didn't work out is because the Vigilante decided to play a different game, and I had no control over that.

    It's called misunderstanding what he said. Not hard to confuse 9 votes for one option and 9 votes total.

    I wasn't intending to insult you or anything with that comment, but I'm sorry if you took offense. I was simply trying to explain the situation and I thought I already had, hence my confusion about your confusion.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I think that, after three nights already (unless I'm mistaken about the Cop getting a chance to investigate on Night 0) and one more night (Night 3), if the Cop has ANY verdicts to let them be known tomorrow. Even if they are all innocent, that takes out four people (not including if the Godfather is one of them) of discussion as people to kill. Just my thoughts on the Cop, since I don't believe I've addressed that role all game.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    No offense taken. We were both caught up in the heat of the moment.

    So, the only person who hasn't voted is Cheif. If he votes No Kill, then one LLight voter would have to change their mind. If he votes LLight, then two No Killers would have to change. Otherwise, we wait another 48 hours going back and forth, and the No Kills eventually get it.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Feral

    The Mafia has no reason to vote for LLight. Therefore, the town should vote for him.

    Case 1: LLight is mafia. Mafia wants LLight to survive.
    Case 2: LLight is not mafia. Mafia kills LLight via executioner. (he's reached the 33% cutoff for Executioner kill).
    Case 3: LLight is not mafia. Mafia leaves LLight alive. Vigilante kills LLight. Ratio become 5/7.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    it's this unfounded loyalty to a guy who has nothing more then charisma and a big mouth.

    Sounds like just about every dictatorship ever...

    But ok, convince me to vote for LLight. Explain to me why I should change my mind and vote for him?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    LLight dies in every circumstance, Hezekiah. I just don't think it's crucial to vote for him at this point, and I'd rather have the Vig tied up killing him than potentially hitting our Cop.

    I think that, after three nights already (unless I'm mistaken about the Cop getting a chance to investigate on Night 0) and one more night (Night 3), if the Cop has ANY verdicts to let them be known tomorrow. Even if they are all innocent, that takes out four people (not including if the Godfather is one of them) of discussion as people to kill. Just my thoughts on the Cop, since I don't believe I've addressed that role all game.

    I agree. And the Cop investigated on Night 0--only killing roles (and presumably the Doctor) didn't do anything at that time. Next round will be crucial especially if LLight isn't Mafia and the Vig kills someone else who is Town-sided, because we'll be down to 6-5 and we'll absolutely have to kill correctly. That's why I defended myself--having suspicion on me going into a night round would be great because it means I'd be less likely to be killed by the Mafia, but if people are 100% convinced that I'm Mafia when I'm not I run the risk of being silenced and lynched without getting a chance to give my defense, and at this point in the game that could cost us the game.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I'm not nearly as good a talker as LLight, Lancer, or even Knuckles, for that matter, but I'll try to explain my thoughts.

    I find it impossible to follow all the statistics that LLight and Knuckles are fond of throwing out, so I can't follow the same train of thought as everybody else. I have adapted to playing for myself, like a mercenary. my main tool is observation, seeing how people respond and act toward each other.

    Much like Knuckles and Roxas, I first became suspicious of LLight over his continued instance of going No Kill, something I see no intelligence in. That is the strategy that cost me my life in the first round of the first two games, and caused me to sit out in frustration in game 3.

    In day 2, LLight said he was too invaluable for us to kill, Townie or Mafia. Sounds like desperation to me.

    Damn... I am getting a headache trying to go over all this in my head. Will try to explain more later.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Feral

    at this point in the game that could cost us the game.

    Wow, did I just type that? Redundancy is redundant.

    Anyway, I still maintain that the votes don't really matter this round, as at this point it's just a matter of whether LLight is killed by the Town, Executioner, or Vigilante. I think there are legitimate reasons for believing that LLight is Mafia but not anything close to proof, and it's dangerous to assume that his Mafia status is proven because it blinds you to other possibilities.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Even if he's not, it'd free Xhin up to target somebody else who he's suspicious of.

    Right now, I'm most suspicious of Shadowwalked, precisely because no one else is. The people that find him a little suspicious have either rescinded their suspicions (knuckles) or a decent case hasn't been made against him being mafia yet. Knowing Shadowwalked outside of the game, he's very very good at slipping under the radar.

    #85 also has said almost nothing this entire round. If he was mafia, he would have learned his lesson from the last time he was mafia and became suspicious to Knuckles2000 almost immediately. I have a weird gut feeling about him too, though that might just be because he was one of the mafia we most wanted to kill in a previous round.

    Malas and Redack are also contenders, but Redack has spoken around the amount of a normal player and is pretty suspicious in general. If he's a mafia, he probably doesn't know how to play too well yet, but knowing redack outside of the game, he'd at least want to slip under the radar like Shadowwalked is doing.

    Knuckles, as usual, is a complete wild card. That's actually a fairly good strategy if he continues to play this way, although he'll probably die pretty often. (Not by my hand this time, lol)

    Helius, Feral, white lancer, and even LLight seem completely legit. So does chiefsonny. If he's a mafia, he's playing a better game than Shadowwalked because I have no impression that he's mafia at all.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    This is just my outlook on how this game is shaping so far.

    LLight is the owner of a donkey. Any townies following him this round are the donkey. LLight's dangling a carrot in front of the donkey to get it to move. Unbeknownst to the donkey, LLight is leading it to a volcano and not a source of water. Simply said, he's leading us down a path to sure death.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    hezekiah is *probably* legit, I don't think he's been a mafia yet so I don't know how he'd play that, but he seems to be playing about the same as he played in other games, and I don't see hezekiah playing the same way in all games regardless of his role. That said though, I can't really judge that since he hasn't been a mafia yet.

    Lastly, we come to `Roxas`. He's always been a power player, so I'm honestly too lazy to go over everything he's said with a fine-toothed comb, but like #85, I have a gut feeling that he's a townie. Probably not the cop, judging by how he's cast his suspicions.

    Also, just so you guys know, I voted for Ctr Black, but I did so randomly like LLight's been suggesting over and over. I can see now that that's obviously a bad move, although you really don't have much to go on in earlier rounds. Now though it's pretty obvious who I should kill. I think Shadowwalked is pretending to be silenced; he probably skipped a silencing for one turn to make himself seem more legit. Another possibility is that the mafia silenced CtR black but are using this to their advantage.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    even LLight seem completely legit.

    Does this mean you won't target LLight even if he's not targeted by the Executioner? Cause that makes me nervous. I can understand him not being targeted by the Executioner last round given the presence of the Governor, but there's no reason for the Executioner not to target him this round unless he is Mafia himself.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Does this mean you won't target LLight even if he's not targeted by the Executioner?

    If he isn't targeted by the executioner tonight, I'll help kill him tomorrow. If he doesn't die tonight he's definitely mafia and I was wrong about him. In fact I think that killing LLight needs to be our priority tomorrow, however I don't see it as my priority as the vigilante because I want to give him one more round.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Yes, I realized I haven't made my thoughts about MajorasMask9 known yet. Like `Roxas`, I'm too lazy to research him right now or anyone else I may have missed.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    I think the evidence against LLight will be much stronger than the evidence against Shadow if LLight isn't killed tonight. How would Shadow be a bigger priority?

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    If he's a mafia, he probably doesn't know how to play too well yet, but knowing redack outside of the game, he'd at least want to slip under the radar like Shadowwalked is doing.

    Oh please, you know not of my work.

    But I'm just a regular townie, for whatever that's worth in a game based around deception.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    @Xhin: By the way, I think it's important that we know exactly who it is that you're targeting tonight, so if you die and the attack gets redirected to the Thug we know who to vote out next.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    LLight is a bigger priority but I'm 90% convinced that he's the Cop so I want to give him a chance to speak up if he isn't killed.

    As to why he hasn't spoken up this round if death by the executioner is likely, it's because he's a complete bastard of some "loophole" strategy (that's what really convinced me in the first place)

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Bleh... Llight now has 5 votes. if the executioner dosn't kill Llight, you better believe he is Mafia. So everyone please keep your votes on him. This may be our last chance in the grand scheme of things.

    And in all honesty, i'm sick of the town being too passive. EVERY game. It's ridiculous, we always wait till it's down to the wire, and we can no longer afford mistakes. THATS whats been killing us all along.

    And in all honesty, it was more fun when I was Mafia because the town is so frickin passive, and frequent in no voting. (Though I assume 5 of the no voters are mafia.) STLLL 2 are prolly townies. then there was the last round too, the majority went for no kills.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Everyone is active -- chance of FOUR townies dying each round (executioner kill, town lynch, vigilante kill, mafia kill)

    Everyone plays it safe -- ONE townie dies each round (mafia kill), giving more time for the Cop to come forward or more evidence to be gathered against mafia members.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Actually, because of how the Executioner is worded, the mafia could theoretically win after one round if we all vote willy-nilly.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Ya, but letting the mafia have their way, and relying blindly on the vig till THIS point? Almost guaranteed loss.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    "So, the only person who hasn't voted is Cheif. If he votes No Kill"

    In don't know how many times I have to say "I will not vote No Kill.

    So does chiefsonny. If he's a mafia, he's playing a better game than Shadowwalked because I have no impression that he's mafia at all.

    What I'm doing is trying to play the game the way I think it was meant to be played. And I don't think that includes sitting around for 3 days voting "No Kill" while the Mafia picks us off one at a time.
    I've read every post in this thread at least twice as I'm sure some of you have. I have 3 suspicions for what it's worth and will vote for one of these people. If I'm wrong and I kill a townie, I'm sorry)

    1. LLight I'm not sure of his role. But I do beleive it's a Mafia role.

    2. White Lancer. I think he's way to quick to come to the aid of LLight. If they are both Mafia, that would make sense.

    3. Xhin. Only because I was the Vig in a game and I did not want anyone to know who I was for fear of the mafia coming after me as fast as they could. So I'm asking myself. Is he mafia, pretending to be the vig. to throw us off.

    I'm getting ready to go to dinner. I will vote when I get back after I read through the post again. Around 7-8PM EST

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    @Malas

    "Like I've said before, can't help but be suspicsious of the people who write huge ass blocks of texts with their rationalizations."

    If that long rant makes you suspicious of me, I'll understand if you want to change your vote.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Yes, I realized I haven't made my thoughts about MajorasMask9 known yet. Like `Roxas`, I'm too lazy to research him right now or anyone else I may have missed.

    Hey I want to be analyzed too :(

    My view on LLight is kind of back and forth and I'm kind of glad that the current situation is the way it is, because it will say a lot depending on what happens in the following night round. Right now I'm thinking that he's the cop, and regret bandwagoning on him so early, if only because of his threats to the mafia about loopholes in the rules. His entire reaction doesn't seem like something that someone who's mafia would say when they're about to die, but it's very hard for me to shake my initial feelings about him. Call it confirmation bias, but I legitly don't know at this point!

    Based on the results of this day round and the following night round, I think we'll be able to re-read this day round and the past day round and determine who is mafia. It goes without saying that the mafia will obviously try to trick the town into thinking they're townies, but there are some risks and sacrifices that no sane mafia member would ever make, usually involving the deaths of their members. I'd urge everyone to re-read the last two days after this day/night takes its course: The situation is bad but it should NOT be too hard to find one mafia member out of the five based on what's been said, or even more than one. Most games will start off in what seems like an inevitable mafia win, but this is only because of how lopsided the numbers are.

    I'll try to post any suspicions I have in the next day round. It's all baseless right now since it mostly depends on whether or not LLight is mafia or town.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    Not at all, you avoided turning this into a statistics course and didn't say anything overredundant, seem legit to me.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    Malas

    2. White Lancer. I think he's way to quick to come to the aid of LLight. If they are both Mafia, that would make sense.

    -_- It would NOT make any sense at all, especially since nothing I could do/say would actually save LLight. You can be suspicious if you want, but the game I've been playing would be a really idiotic game if I were Mafia, and I don't think I've given you all cause to think that about me.

    3. Xhin. Only because I was the Vig in a game and I did not want anyone to know who I was for fear of the mafia coming after me as fast as they could. So I'm asking myself. Is he mafia, pretending to be the vig. to throw us off.

    I worried about this initially, but claiming Vigilante would be a terrible move for the Mafia because the real Vig is out there and can kill the fake Vig without even revealing their role.

    As to why he hasn't spoken up this round if death by the executioner is likely, it's because he's a complete bastard of some "loophole" strategy (that's what really convinced me in the first place)

    I'm very, very leery about this whole "loophole" strategy. It pretty much has to have something to do with out-of-game stuff, which I'm not really a fan of, and I don't trust that it's not something Yeano will simply shut down. And if the Executioner feels that LLight has a chance of being the Cop, there's no way LLight makes it out of this round.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    If white lancer is a townie, it will be to the mafia's strategic advantage to kill him after identifying him as "he deserves to win, even if we find out later that's he mafia" because when MajorasMask9 previously held that title, the game basically fell apart after he and I were killed. Seems to me like these two players swapped positions. So, based on the ideas presented herein, one of these players is a townie and the other is mafia. Given that there is still a possibility that I live, if white lancer dies and turns up as a townie, suspicion will again be drawn towards me. Both the mafia and vigilante would be considering that choice.

    It's decisions like these which I think make a good moderator. There are some who fit my expectations and then there are others who don't and are basically out of character, a far cry from their real selves. The insight of the people who are generally good at reading other people are mostly accurate so it is impressive overall. There are also others who are exclusively focused on me (Knuckles, 'Roxas', hezekiah). Feral also apparently did not get the hint in my message so I'm not sure if he's naturally oblivious to possibilities others of greater observational skills have picked up on or if it makes him mafia.

    April 24, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    I saw somebody ask for clarification earlier, but I don't remember reading a response from Xhin.

    @Xhin: By the way, I think it's important that we know exactly who it is that you're targeting tonight, so if you die and the attack gets redirected to the Thug we know who to vote out next.

    Was wondering this too. If you've already revealed your role, you might as well reveal that much information since I see no reason why the mafia wouldn't kill you in the next night, seeing as you and the cop are their only notable threats.

    I'm going to believe you when you say that you are the vigilante since nobody has counterclaimed. As such, if you're intent on killing someone, PLEASE make sure you're more than positive about your target. Assuming LLight doesn't get executed, a random shot will only give you a 38% chance of hitting someone that's mafia. Those aren't the best of odds, and it'd be especially hurtful with the ratio as it is.

    TBH I think LLight's fiasco might have screwed the town over in the long run, but I'm willing to give the game a chance to turn around in the next night. But if we get another wrong vigilante kill, I think it would take a miracle to salvage the game.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    Seems like a lot of people are today using the reasoning I went with "yesterday". Thing is, we don't need to repeat it. We gave LLight enough votes that the mafia could have killed him. He didn't get killed. That points real strongly to him being mafia.

    Now, he has enough point that the mafia could kill him. If the executioner gets him, it's the same as if we kill him. If the executioner doesn't get him, sounds like we'll be town killing him tomorrow. My question is, why wait? All that waiting for tomorrow would do is take away a chance for a town kill. Goddamnit, you stubborn people.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    Yes, Xhin needs to tell us WHO he intends to target if he IS the vig.

    Hez, 5 of those no voters are prolly mafia. They sneakily switch their votes around, in an attempt to save Llight, and make everything more complicated.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    We gave LLight enough votes that the mafia could have killed him. He didn't get killed. That points real strongly to him being mafia.

    Rather, he hasn't gotten killed yet:

    "For the record, Executioner kill takes place at the end of the day round (at the same time as the lynching)."

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Xhin. LLight reached 6 votes during Day 2. Therefore the Executioner could've killed him at the conclusion of the round. BUT HE DIDN'T DIE

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    Sadly, the last round ended with 4 votes for Llight... so, the executioner couldn't have killed him.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Wrong.

    "If a person, at any time during the day round, receives 1/3 of the total possible votes, the Executioner may elect to kill that person in addition to the person that is lynched."

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    True... maybe the executioner is just stupid though. But it's a fair assumption that Llight IS the executioner based on his act through out the game.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Assdammit Xhin you keep avoiding questions about your vigilante role. I could probably go back through this thread and list at least three times you've avoided questions and I have no idea why you're doing this if you're really the vigilante, and honestly I can't believe that you're NOT the vigilante, so it's just making things unnecessarily difficult.

    Xhin. LLight reached 6 votes during Day 2. Therefore the Executioner could've killed him at the conclusion of the round. BUT HE DIDN'T DIE

    The problem with that is that the governor was alive at the time, and the mafia can always play mindgames to get the town going after the wrong people. I've said it many times before in this game and other games, but silencer targets, executioner targets, and maybe even thug saves if we ever get one of those should NOT be used as evidence for or against certain players being mafia. Basing judgments on those actions will just lead to manipulation. Wine in front of me, etc.

    However, I'd hope in this case that if the executioner doesn't kill LLight, that Xhin will.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    if you're really the vigilante, and honestly I can't believe that you're NOT the vigilante, so it's just making things unnecessarily difficult

    Pfft. please, we've been barking up that tree too long. I'm going to take a shot at this, and based on everyone who was silenced, i'd say Xhin is the silencer.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I really don't want to just sit here and wait for the mafia to kill more people. If we don't kill LLight, it's guaranteed that the Mafia will have enough votes to Executioner somebody tomorrow. I'm sick of sitting on our asses waiting. Let's get proactive and kill LLight. Holy shit.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    I really don't want to just sit here and wait for the mafia to kill more people. If we don't kill LLight, it's guaranteed that the Mafia will have enough votes to Executioner somebody tomorrow. I'm sick of sitting on our asses waiting. Let's get proactive and kill LLight. Holy shit.

    Welcome to my world! But the way I see it, two townies are being idiots, and 5 mafia want to win, so... hard to take him out under these circumstances.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Pfft. please, we've been barking up that tree too long. I'm going to take a shot at this, and based on everyone who was silenced, i'd say Xhin is the silencer.

    Xhin claimed to be vigilante. NOBODY has claimed otherwise. If he isn't the vigilante, the real one sure as heck better shoot him overnight. When it comes to roleclaims, if somebody falsely claims, and the real role knows this, in most cases it's best if they step up and say something as to not let the town get mislead. I'm going to believe Xhin when he says he's the vigilante.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    Plus Shadowwalked is obviously silenced, so he can't vote. So unless Chief changes from not voting to Llight, and the two townies change to Llight as well, we're screwed.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I could probably go back through this thread and list at least three times you've avoided questions and I have no idea why you're doing this if you're really the vigilante, and honestly I can't believe that you're NOT the vigilante, so it's just making things unnecessarily difficult.

    I still have about 10 hours to answer that question. Getting people to overreact is a part of my general strategy as it tends to reveal things about them that would normally not come up in normal conversation.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Xhin claimed to be vigilante. NOBODY has claimed otherwise.

    It wouldn't be smart to. the mafia would nail the real one.

    If he isn't the vigilante, the real one sure as heck better shoot him overnight.

    I'd assume he intends to unless he's silenced.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Plus Shadowwalked is obviously silenced, so he can't vote.

    That's one possibility, yes.

    So unless Chief changes from not voting to Llight, and the two townies change to Llight as well, we're screwed.

    Like I said, if LLight is not dead tomorrow, then we definitely need to kill him.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Getting people to overreact is a part of my general strategy as it tends to reveal things about them that would normally not come up in normal conversation.

    This WHOLE thing is stupid though, I mean it literally makes no sense at all at this point. The mafia will kill you if you are the vig, and if you aren't you are either mafia, or a regular townie trying to take the fall.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Exactly what I said last round and this round, hezekiah. There is enough circumstantial evidence that LLight is Mafia, and all of it is being ignored.

    Vote for LLight so we at least have a shot at winning this.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    It wouldn't be smart to. the mafia would nail the real one.

    Then why would he falsely claim vigilante in the first place?

    I still have about 10 hours to answer that question. Getting people to overreact is a part of my general strategy as it tends to reveal things about them that would normally not come up in normal conversation.

    Don't toy with me in the middle of a seemingly-hopeless game :(

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    The mafia will kill you if you are the vig, and if you aren't you are either mafia, or a regular townie trying to take the fall.

    If I wasn't the vigilante, then the real vigilante would kill me. My real strategy here is to claim my role so the mafia members will come out of the woodwork and reveal more about themselves. I did this a couple rounds ago when I was the doctor, and it worked pretty well (although we ended up losing that round, it was extremely close despite all the power roles being killed off early).

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Then why would he falsely claim vigilante in the first place?

    He's mafia. Though his motive I still have no idea. I think it's to stall votes, and create confusion to lead us to our demise. But when and if the real cop tells what to go on, the vig may well know that we need him then.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Your strategy is fuggin stupid if you ARE the vig, Xhin. The mafia is smarter than herping and derping around to imply their role this time. In fact, they got so much going in their favor atm, they prolly wouldn't even need to talk.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Because of how I accidentally killed the governor last round, I figure the best way to play this game is to play it like we played the first game -- examine everyone thoroughly. Killing people randomly isn't going to do much good, regardless of what your role is.

    At this point in the game, the vigilante role is better played in trying to draw out mafia members. Making them say things they wouldn't ordinarily say because of the changed circumstances. That'll give us a much better shot at this game then indiscriminate killing.

    That said, I'm still going to do some indiscriminate killing tonight.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Like was stated before, an Executioner not killing does not indicate a role. It's far more plausible to use it as a way to shroud suspicion on another player. I'd also like to point out that hezekiah is normally a level headed person, as such, this is out of character.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Shut it, Llight. We're done with that shit. The town listened to your bowlshit this entire game, and it's only led us to closer to our demise.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    LLight - hezekiah, Feral, Knukles2000, `Roxas`, Malas
    No Kill - Xhin, Redack, LLight, Helius, white lancer, MajorasMask9, #85
    Not Voting (yet) - chiefsonny
    Can't vote (silenced) - Shadowwalked

    I know it's available down at the bottom, but it's nice having it organized by the vote target.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    If I had to pick out of the no votes atm.

    *Llight

    *White Lancer

    *Helius

    *Xhin

    *#85 (If not him, i'd assume Redack)

    But it's clear as day that the mafia wants us to no vote if Llight is Mafia, which he very likely is.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I'd like to think that at least one Mafia member is trying to break connections with LLight all together by voting for him. Out of those of us that did, the person that makes the most sense to me would be Malas.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    Malas is one of the few being sensible here. Dosn't add up to me. Feral would make more sense to me.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    @Yeano

    I'm reaffirming that I am not changing my vote this round.

    Hopefully, we can speed this up? I think all the arguments have been said and I can only tolerate Knuckles, Roxas, and the gang so much. :(

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    Helius. Your being stupid. We're playing the game the best we can. If you can't tolerate us, your prolly mafia getting scared.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Malas' reason for his vote was literally because he doesn't trust people who write large blocks of replies. That is not a "sensible" reply. He then changed his vote after a trollface.

    We're basically done arguing about the finer points because the rest is conjecture and can't be proven until that person dies.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Stop twisting the story, Malas had other reasons that he listed even.

    And by that logic, you might as well vote for yourself!

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    @Knuckles

    If you can't tolerate us, your prolly mafia getting scared.

    Nope, I have a life to get back too. I'm trying to read replies and reply when necessary, but this does take a bit of time out of my day. My time is precious. I'd rather not piss it away.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    Helius, if your mafia when this is over, i'll e-smack you 10 times, I swear.

    Llight's motives and actions are at least understandable for a mafia, but your being pretty ridiculous...

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Then don't read it? It's just a game. Don't blame us and complain for doing our part.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Then don't read it? It's just a game. Don't blame us and complain for doing our part.

    Right. Cause that will work so well for me! I don't respond, I'm inactive. Xhin has already suggested that he is going after Shadowwalked because he hasn't replied. :/ What are you trying to do? Kill me?

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    No, we're trying to kill LLight. Because he's mafia. We think he's mafia based on him not dying from the executioner at the end of Day 2.

    You said you don't like having a lot to read. Is that short enough for you?

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    More interrogating, as your actions are wild-cardish, odd, and it makes everything a lot more complex.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    More interrogating, as your actions are wild-cardish, odd, and it makes everything a lot more complex.

    Or as I call it: me being irritated. I have my limits on tolerance too, ya know.

    Is that short enough for you?

    Yes.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    Also, Xhin you shouldn't go after Shadowwalked if you ACTUALLY said that somewhere and IF you are the vig. He's prolly just a silenced victim.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    It's a game. I know it gets frustrating at times, but this game can be nerve wracking. We aren't just going to leave out the possibility that you are mafia just becaused you are "irritated".

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I wouldn't expect you too, but I think we've beaten the entire Llight debate to death. I'm not leaving out the possibility that you're mafia either even though you claim not to be.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Helius

    Well I just read through 542 post begining at the start of Game 4 And here are a few things that worry me. There are a lot of others but these made me look closer at comments as I read.

    Saturday, Apr 21 Reply #741955
    Redack said he had a suspicions about one person that may be Mafia. That being being LLight as he tried to get him to post in one of the others posts which would've resulted in a host-kill, because he was silenced.

    Same day Reply #741967
    White lancer said Part of the way LLight has been playing this game is to try to find loopholes to help him win. First mention of the LLight loop holes. Before LLight even mentioned them again.

    Monday, Apr 23, 2012 Reply #743275
    LLight said
    or (2) find a loophole and if I was the cop and have a loophole, you're fucked.

    Now I'm not 100% sure LLight is Mafia, but I am sure that he has a knack for opening mouth and inserting foot.
    If he's a townie, I'm sorry, but I think the town is better off with out him.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Exactly why we should move onto who the 3rd mafia is since White Lancer is. And idc if you think i'm mafia, i'd HOPE everyone here is smart enough to not vote me out thinking I am.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    We need two more votes to get Llight out THIS DAY. Come on people, it's all up to you. This may be our last chance in the grand scheme. The mafia is about to put us in a corner and mallet us if we don't act.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Actually, we only need one person to change. That'd put us at 7 for LLight and 6 for No Kill. Thanks for switching, chief.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    Actually, we only need one person to change. That'd put us at 7 for LLight and 6 for No Kill. Thanks for switching, chief.

    No Kill -- 7 Votes
    LLight -- 6 Votes

    Then why do I see this? Is the system rigged?

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    We need one person to switch from No Kill to LLight. That would subtract one vote from No Kill (making it 6) and add one to LLight (making it 7).

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    Oh duh. My bad. Math isn't my strong-suit. We need one more. I just didn't notice that right off the bat, plus i'm tired.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Saturday, Apr 21 Reply #741955
    Redack said he had a suspicions about one person that may be Mafia. That being being LLight as he tried to get him to post in one of the others posts which would've resulted in a host-kill, because he was silenced.

    This was disproved by the below statement, which at the time was a repeated rule at the end of each of Yeano's reply, so me suggesting that he reply in another thread would not have broken any rules. Said topic was then locked.
    If your role changes to "Silenced," you may NOT post in this thread. If you do, you will be host-killed.
    you may NOT post in this thread.
    this thread.
    this thread.

    I'll volunteer myself next day round if I manage to live. If I was the cop it would be an opportunity for another night of investigation, consequently a Vigilante kill on me might be wasted, but at the same time answer everyone's questions.

    If votes are tied, no one gets killed in the day round. That leaves only the Executioner kill possible, but they used the Executioner not killing last round as a way to shroud suspicion in my general direction. Two things about that though:

  • An Executioner no kill now would mean the Vigilante targets me if he is convinced that I am mafia.
  • An Executioner kill would mean they use it as their contingency plan and opportune moment to kill another townie, but that would mean the Vigilante kills one of my mentions plus a within the rules exploit and a combine of a sanctioned dimension to gameplay.

    I'm honestly too tired right now to argue with anyone. hezekiah keeps repeating himself though. Uses the same reason all the time.

    • April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    No more lies and deceit... someone needs to end this right here, and change their vote to Llight. It will answer MANY things either way.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    See, thing is, I shouldn't need any other arguments. If we don't kill you (and the mafia doesn't (>implying you're not mafia)), they'll continue to use you as a "way to shroud suspicion" at you. This is crap. If we kill you now we can move on to other targets. If we don't, we're stuck sitting on our asses while the mafia kills at least one person per night.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    ^

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Hey LLight, how about you put your money (back) where your mouth was. See reply 1335233054.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    ^ This.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    These are not the words of the man who respectfully debated statistics in game 2 and 3. This is a complete 180 of that person. It's just not like you, someone who was chosen as administrator because of his level head. I can understand admins like chiefsonnny and Feral making a bad decision, but to do it willingly for someone like you is suggestive of a mafia role, especially so, when caught in Knuckles' accusative nature. This is a witch hunt and you are out of character.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Shut up Llight, we'll figure out the rest after your dead. But either way it's clear we need you dead to move on.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    "I can understand admins like chiefsonnny and Feral making a bad decision"

    Well we can't all be as great as you.

    So now that you see that your "Greatness" is not going to save your ass in this game, you're going to make it personal.
    Why does that not surprise me?

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    He's BEEN making it personal. Mostly with me, but a few others as well iirc.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    You wouldn't be shitting bricks if we weren't right. See replies 1335237632 and 1335307375. So yeah, if you want to gamble on the possibility that I may be the cop, then we get another round of investigation. Voting for No Kill offers the least risk.

    If we vote:
    1/2 chance: Town is wrong and Vigilante is right: Mafia kill -1 townies. Vigilante kill -1 Mafia, -2 townies total. 5:7.
    1/2 chance: Town is wrong and Vigilante is wrong: Mafia kill -1 townies. 0 Mafia loss, -3 townies total. 5:6.

    If we don't vote:
    1/2 chance: Vigilante is right: Mafia kill -1 townies. Vigilante kill -1 Mafia. -1 townies total. 5:8, Executioner kill not possible.
    1/2 chance: Vigilante is wrong: Mafia kill -1 townies. 0 Mafia loss, -2 townies total. 5:7, Executioner kill not possible.

    Voting creates the option to lose 3 townies max, 2 at minimum. A vote for No Kill creates the option to lose 2 townies max, 1 at minimum.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    So when you may be about to die, you FINALLY want to ACTUALLY claim cop? Your full of bowlshit, and so are your references. if you were the cop you wouldn't of waited till now. You ain't right, your just getting desperate. Theres no proof there of ANYTHING.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I've basically just been abused, chief. I'm being called all sorts of names and overall people are being generally offensive. I was having fun last night because it was actually interesting going over the possibilities, the people who I think are mafia were really making convincing arguments. This is just degrading and insulting.

    Anyway, I'm heading to bed now. Will check up on the thread later.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Why are you always looking at a way that ends up with the town losing? We went two rounds without killing, and look where it's got us.

    Stop looking at everything so damn negatively and look at the chances that the town and vigilante are right with their picks today and tonight.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    ............................................Righttt like most of what you said to me wasn't degrading and insulting. All of the evidence we need against you was already put on the table. But now we just have to wait till this is over, and all thats left to throw at each other is comments such as this. It gets frustrating, you really keep contradicting yourself and a lot of shit. So sry, but rly thats just how I talk sometimes.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    By calculating the maximum amount of loss, we can accurately assess our margin for error and therefore which actions we can take safely.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    ~Facepalm~ There it is again.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    So LLight. Why, if you are the cop you claimed to be, why did the Mafia not kill you last night? So that we'd go after you during the day? And guess what, we'd be playing right into their hand (AGAIN) by not killing you off today, and leaving you for tomorrow (AGAIN). I want you dead because I don't see any other players with as compelling a reason to die. Therefore, the town would just continue No Killing until it's far too late.

    tl;dr LLight is a roadblock to advancement of the game, regardless of his role. There's the "Kill LLight" camp, and the "Kill Nobody" camp. Until those camps are broken up by LLight's death, the town is fucked.


    And this is a very peculiar time to claim cop; as of now, you're in a position to survive the round. So it was a foolish play, which doesn't match your typical style.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    Xhin you keep avoiding questions about your vigilante role. I could probably go back through this thread and list at least three times you've avoided questions and I have no idea why you're doing this if you're really the vigilante, and honestly I can't believe that you're NOT the vigilante, so it's just making things unnecessarily difficult.

    problem with that is that the governor was alive at the time, and the mafia can always play mindgames to get the town going after the wrong people. I've said it many times before in this game and other games, but silencer targets, executioner targets, and maybe even thug saves if we ever get one of those should NOT be used as evidence for or against certain players being mafia. Basing judgments on those actions will just lead to manipulation. Wine in front of me, etc.

    I'd hope in this case that if the executioner doesn't kill LLight, that Xhin will.

    I agree so much with this post and have been saying a lot of this for some time now. Unfortunately certain people seem to be ignoring whatever evidence doesn't fit their view of this game, and I'm not entirely sure why. Either they're so blinded by their gut instincts that they don't want to see anything else, or they're Mafia and trying to get a Townie lynched.

    And Xhin, truth be told, you're kinda freaking me out. A miskill at this point could be downright disastrous and we need to know who you go after if we're going to follow up on what you do if you die. Plus you killing LLight may be in the Town's best interest even if he is Town-sided because of what Hezekiah said:

    thing is, I shouldn't need any other arguments. If we don't kill you (and the mafia doesn't (>implying you're not mafia)), they'll continue to use you as a "way to shroud suspicion" at you. This is crap. If we kill you now we can move on to other targets. If we don't, we're stuck sitting on our asses while the mafia kills at least one person per night.

    This is actually what has me the most nervous. LLight as a Mafia member is dangerous, but he might be even more dangerous if he's Town-sided but the Mafia leave him alive. By my view, this is probably the worst case scenario:

    LLight is a Townie. The Executioner spares him because the Mafia knows they can convince the Town to lynch him in the next round. Xhin shoots someone randomly and winds up accidentally killing the Cop, while the Mafia kill him. That would leave us with 7 vanilla Townies against all 5 Mafia members, with the most likely result being a lynching of LLight followed by a Night Kill. 5-5, game over.

    ^A scenario like that would really screw us over even if LLight is Town-sided, and it's why I'm now finding myself torn.

    We still have a day left in this round, correct?

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    About 1 day and 6ish hours.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Yeano

    It feels like this round has been going on forever. 300+ replies for an outcome that has been (almost) certain since the beginning. Is that the most replies we've had in a single round?

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    I think we should try to make it to 500 replies. We're on pace for 522ish right now.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    We can do it! I've certainly contributed my fair share. XD

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Ya, you contributed a no vote, a complete waste, and only a hindrance to us more likely than not.

    Other than that, you said a bunch of words that prolly won't rly help much.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I say we go for it. Not like these game-based negotiations/interrogations/conversations are going anywhere.

    How is everyone doing tonight?

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    Now, Knux, we should play nice when trying to reach a combined goal after a decision has pretty much been made.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    Oh you know i'm just baiting him to see what he's hiding.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    .... My bad cop mode is out. Thats all.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Knukles, you're one of the main reasons I'm sticking with my No Kill vote for now. You are the chief person I was referring to when I spoke of someone blinded by their gut, and it's really hard to side with someone when their argument for their suspicions is "LLight is definitely probably for sure Mafia OMG THEY DON'T AGREE THEY MUST BE MAFIA LOL!" The main reason my words probably won't help much is that people like you have convinced yourselves that I'm Mafia and are ignoring everything I say.

    On the other side, there are players like Majora, who I'm beginning to believe is the only sane player left in this game. Everyone else is playing mindgames or gutgames, but Majora seems to be playing with straight logic.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Wut? Theres plenty of logical reasons to believe Llight is Mafia. ....Seriously, are you stupid, or trying to cover it up, and pretend like it never existed? Really, you can't jump to conclusions like that. Your gut is telling you that i'm relying on my gut alone.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    I've seen your logical reasons, and I've admitted that there is some evidence for him being Mafia. What I take issue with is people who insist that the evidence is so conclusive that it's essentially proof. It's not even close to that, and believing that LLight is potentially not Mafia should not be considered a ridiculous notion.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Nobody said it's sheer proof actually. Nor do I think it's sheer proof. I just think theres a high enough chance to warrant a vote. Why don't you as well? Is there not enough evidence to warrant a vote at this time? Besides, his death would answer a LOT of questions. Whats much to lose if he dies? Even if he is townie, we could still jump to the conclusion of who and who isn't mafia, and yes I am aware I would be one of them who'd be suspected, but i'm confident enough to believe that Llight is mafia, and while I am not a 100% sure, there is enough evidence to give him a vote.

    So I ask again, seeing all of it, why not?

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    People haven't said straight out that there was proof, but now you all are 100% convinced that I'm Mafia simply because I argued that LLight wasn't necessarily Mafia. It's like you don't believe there are logical reasons for believing that LLight is innocent.

    I'm with you in that LLight's death would clear up some stuff, which is why I've been pushing for Xhin to kill him during the night if the Executioner doesn't. But if he does turn out to be Mafia I'm sure you guys will turn on me next, which would suck for me but also be really bad for the Town. To be honest, I am considering switching my vote, though, because it would simplify things a lot. I feel like there's a potential benefit to voting to keep LLight this round, but there are also benefits to getting rid of him.

    For what it's worth, I don't think you're particularly suspicious, Knukles, even if LLight is Town-sided, as your actions seem consistent with previous rounds. Can't say the same about everyone who is currently voting with you, though.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Sigh. No one is a 100% sure, so thats no excuse. But regardless, the evidence that he's guilty far outweighs that of innocent.

    Why rely on Xhin when we can finish it here instead of wasting ammo given to us?

    Well, i didn't rly start this trend against Llight, I just greatly help carry it along to get him to slip up somewhere or not to give us more to work with. And I never said everyone also voting for Llight is innocent, I just said it seemed much more likely that IF Llight IS Mafia that the mafia would at this point likely jump on the no vote bandwagon.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Lancer, I hope you're not forgetting that what you're proposing ("pushing for Xhin to kill him during the night if the Executioner doesn't") is the same thing as happened yesterday. I'm reminded of a saying... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Don't be fooled twice.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    This round is ridiculous. I'm half-tempted to jump on the kill-LLight bandwagon just so it will end.

    Also I miscalculated and we still have a day and about four hours left. I'll probably be gone all day tomorrow so wonderful.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    DA LLIGHT KNOWS!... And if we kill him, we gain his power! Yay!

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Alright, I'm doing it. Mostly I've been holding back out of stubbornness, not wanting to be on the bandwagon for lynching someone who was innocent, but that's not going to help the town any. I'm still not convinced LLight is Mafia but matters are simpler this way.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    @Llight

    My reason for not trusting people who write big blocks of text is due to their redundancy. At the begining of one of the rounds of this game there were at least 3 posts straight that stated the same facts over and over. It reminds me of my nephew when he's in trouble: he overcompensates by being extremely helpful, which is an even bigger tell.

    Hence my position, I focus on the subtexts.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Malas

    like Majora, who I'm beginning to believe is the only sane player left in this game.

    Well, I take offence to that. I may not have been sane to begin with but there's no need to point it out!

    I'm mostly just waiting for this round to end. The debate is just going around in circles... Though I am in support of the idea of trying to get 500+ replies...

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    Also I miscalculated and we still have a day and about four hours left. I'll probably be gone all day tomorrow so wonderful.

    If you're really this insistent to wait until the last minute to reveal your information, then don't be surprised if we end up losing from getting misguided by a thug save and you end up dead.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    Voting No Kill stops mob/pack/herd mentality. The town doesn't need to be responsible in this round because there are other ways to kill. It doesn't have to be in this day round or even in the night round, which is why I volunteer to go willingly next round if I survive if you just trust me. You should already have other suspects in mind after what I've done for this town. Not many people get to the end of 3 day rounds because they don't make sense.

    @Malas, that's a fair analogy, but I'm not a kid and I'm certainly not your nephew. There are more people who better fit that description.

    It's also very irrelevant who the Vigilante kills or why because you aren't able to tell a mafia kill from a Vigilante kill in the night time.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    It's also very irrelevant who the Vigilante kills or why because you aren't able to tell a mafia kill from a Vigilante kill in the night time.

    If Xhin says "I am the vigilante and I'm killing ____" then we will know for a fact that ____ is the one that's going to be shot by the vigilante.

    If Xhin sticks with this and kills ____, but the thug dies in ____'s place, we'll know who was originally targeted by the vigilante kill. If we don't know who Xhin targets, and he targets someone that is mafia, the thug could save a mafia member without their identity being revealed.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    I volunteer to go willingly next round if I survive if you just trust me.

    Erm...this doesn't actually make sense to me. If we keep you this round and you somehow survive until next round, how will lynching you then benefit the Town? As I see it, there's a chance we'll wind up at 4-8 (if Xhin hits a Mafia) but we may well wind up at 5-7, and lynching you if you're innocent next round would cost us the game (assuming the Vigilante is killed in the night round). Even if you're innocent it would be better to kill you this round than next.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    The best we can do this round (including the Night) is 3 Mafia-8 Townies. The worst is 5 Mafia-6 Townies. Just throwing that out there.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    I'm not sold Xhin is the vigilante. If he's lying about it, it's good that it draws attention from the real vig, but it misleads the town

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    #85

    If Xhin isn't the Vigilante, the real one should kill him tonight. Unless that happens, I'm going to trust Xhin.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Same as white lancer. This would be an opportunity to potentially narrow it down to 2-8 at the end of the next day.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    I'd jump in and say something, but it's been too much a horrible day in so many ways. Plus I may, or may not have a comp soon.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Knukles2000

    Ahh what a sigh of relief it would be once I die. I must say Majora, you're really good at this game. You picked up on all the right clues in all the right places at all the right times. I'm ecstatic and it's been fun playing this game with you. From our previous games, you should also know that my strategy is of a martyr, nearing utilitarianism even. You've had an idea for quite a while of what my role is, you were just waiting for a reply like this one to re-affirm your theory. I'd like to thank you and lancer for an exciting play. You should have also been able to tell for a while now, that this is Mutually Assured Destruction. Not quite sure what role you are, but you might survive another round if you're not the thug and you would have had me completely fooled if you were the godfather. I took notice of your suggested high risk strategy because there were just too many variables for things to go wrong in the way you've described them. I'd also have you know that I never planned on winning the game. It's all about the fun, man, so you will be pleasantly surprised at the results. And it's not "cheating" as per se or as you've put it, but it will be fun. When you join me in the afterlife thread, I still don't want spoilers until this game is over. You're also a pretty cool guy for not joining in on the insanely clear mob mentality that plagues less skilled players, so I'm grateful for that.

    Haha, now then Feral... I'm feeling quite nostalgic, we've known each other for years here. Doesn't this remind you of the good old days? It was always me vs the moderator and the forum. I couldn't help but start feeling nostalgic after all this. I mean it's like "he was an asshole, but at least that asshole was right". I was really hoping you'd pick up on at least one of the loopholes and change your vote, but I guess that didn't happen. Come on now, let's have one last drink at the mafia town bar. Haha we don't even have a name for this town, don't even know what to call it. Well, won't you join me for one last drink before I die? It would do an old war horse like me a favour, this drink between friends.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    Erm...this doesn't actually make sense to me. If we keep you this round and you somehow survive until next round, how will lynching you then benefit the Town?

    Well since I've artfully suggested that I was the cop without actually saying it, it would offer me one more round to investigate one more person before I die. With a loophole in place, information is sure to be found after my death.

    Anyway, sorry to hear you're going through another bad phase Knuckles. Hope things get better for you, so can't say much without knowing the details and even if I knew, I still probably wouldn't.

    Edited: Hmm in my opinion a locked thread should also lock editing.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    LLight

    LLight is probably dead no matter what we do, so I'm changing my vote so this round ends quicker.

    If he's the Cop, then the executioner will kill him; if he isn't, then he's a mafia and needs to die anyway.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Wasn't going to change my vote for a few reasons. It would give us a chance to see what the executioner's reaction is, but TBH too much of the game relies on figuring out LLight's role, and the round is going nowhere as it is.

    So, let's get the game going.

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    Night 3.

    After an incredibly long debate, the town finally decided to simply lynch LLight to move on from him being the focus of the past several days. As his lifeless body hung limply, they checked his ID and discovered that LLight was the Cop.

    1. Zanic - Double-voter
    2. `Roxas`
    3. CtR Black - Governor
    4. white lancer
    5. Shadowwalked
    6. MajorasMask9
    7. Knukles2000
    8. Xhin
    9. LLight - Cop
    10. hezekiah
    11. Helius
    12. chiefsonny
    13. Bubba - Ghoul
    14. Malas
    15. Teddy-Son - Doctor
    16. Feral
    17. Redack
    18. #85

    Mafia-Town Ratio: 5-8

    Roles: Godfather, Executioner, Silencer, Thug, Mafioso, Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Governor, Double-voter, Ghoul

    A little over 24 hours to get your night actions in.

    WARNING: If your role changes to "Silenced," you may NOT post in this thread. If you do, you will be host-killed.

    Also, updating rules of Executioner so that at least one non-mafia vote must be cast for that person in order to be Executed.

    Continued in [p:63281].

    April 25, 2012
    Edit
    Yeano

    Reply to: game 4 thread 3 night 3 and it gets worse

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