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Mafia

Moderated by: Speed Bike Pro

game 42 mafia thread

Posted March 16, 2016 by Xhin

Hey guys, you're the mafia.

Feel free to reveal your actual names to each other. OR KEEP IT A MYSTERY, MWAHAHAH*cough*.

Since this game is pretty rad and groovy anyway, I'll let you guys choose your own roles and maybe strategize about who should be what. If there's a tie I'll pick a role winner randomly.

Here's the mafia players...

  • Fly By Night
  • 2112
  • Farewell to Kings
  • Cinderella Man
  • Circumstances

    Here's the roles!

  • Kingpin -- Every night round, finds out who the Bumbling Cop investigated. Once per game, they can make the result come back wrong.

  • Enforcer -- Every night round they can beat someone up. Someone who is beat up knows that they're beaten up at the start of the day round and maybe should try to get some of that sweet sweet doctor love. If they don't then at the start of the next day they die. It goes something like this..

    Night 1 -- Enforcer lays the SMACK DOWN on dudebro.
    Day 1 -- dudebro is pretty beat up, bros. asks for a doc potion or three.
    Night 1 -- the doc is like "NOP" and doesn't save dudebro
    Beginning of Day 1 -- dudebro has died :(

  • Rebel -- Normal mafioso. During the day round if a mafia power role has died they can become it. It's your choice if you want to become it and which one you want to become (if they're both dead).

  • Mafioso x 2 (Normal mafia-lings).

    • There are 158 Replies

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    I'm a god.... Only makes sense to say farewell to kings.

    March 16, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    It would be funny if you chose to be the Kingpin.. hopefully wouldn't be a self-fulfilling prophecy :P

    March 16, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Good evening.

    I will choose to be a regular mafioso.

    March 16, 2016
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    Fly By Night

    Enforcer sounds great.

    March 16, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    Let's do Kingpin

    March 16, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    I'm fine with mafioso. Are we concerning ourselves at all with regular names in here?

    March 16, 2016
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    2112

    I guess this means I'm the Rebel. This name thing is going to make this a very strange game.

    March 16, 2016
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    Circumstances

    Feel free to reveal your names in here. If you do, I'll edit the mafia thread to show them.

    March 16, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    When I commented on the enforcer, I didn't mean to claim it! But I'll take it dutifully if no one else wants it.

    Bubba here. We just need to make sure we don't slip up and use these names in the town thread. (Tried posting this as Cinderella Man but it wouldn't let me?)

    March 17, 2016
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    Bubba

    Fly By Night is Vandy

    I am also unable to post as Fly By Night when away from my home computer. It says I have an invalid password when logged in.

    March 17, 2016
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    Vandy

    This is Lancer. Going to be a tricky game for me just because I don't want to give away my identity, but I feel like my writing style is pretty distinctive so that may be tough. I'm probably one of the ones who would benefit from this change, so hopefully I can take advantage of it. Is Redack in here? I hope so, because I think he's one of the ones most likely to be able to identify me.

    If I had to guess, I'd say that this is probably an advantage for the Mafia, on the balance--it's harder for people to tell when others are acting out of character, for sure. I could be wrong and it could be that the names distracted the Town more than anything else, but I'd bet the other way.

    March 17, 2016
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    Circumstances

    Helius here.

    Tried a bit of misdirection with that binary in the first post.

    March 17, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings



    Show Spoiler


    March 17, 2016
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    2112

    IT IS NOW NIGHT ONE

    Here's what you guys are, now set in stone:

    Farewell to Kings -- Kingpin (Helius)
    Cinderella Man -- Enforcer (Bubba)
    Circumstances -- Rebel (white lancer)
    Fly By Night -- Mafioso (Vandy)
    2112 -- Mafioso (Pirate_Ninja)

    Farewell to Kings, you'll be pleased to know that your scheming and sliming worked.. you found out that that bumbling cop decided to investigate:

    Cinderella Man

    Remember that you can make the results come back wrong one per game... so for example in this case if you used your awesomesauce special power, the cop would get Innocent. But then the mafia would have to wait for you to die and the Rebel to take your place before the special power could be used again :-(

    Cinderella Man, I know you're pretty angry about getting targeted so early. So why not take out your frustration on someone?

    And Everyone, it's now time to vote for a night kill. Remember that if the enforcer or a night kill hits someone the security guard is protecting, the Kingpin will go into a coma for a day and a night. Then again, that's only like a 1/20 chance!

    March 18, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Well....

    Do I hide the results?

    March 18, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    This mafia may be biased here, but might as well go ahead and use the power. With the amount of people playing it may be a few rounds before we luck up and kill this cop. Never know when he will role reveal.

    I'll beat up Spirit of Radio. Thoughts on the murder target?

    March 18, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    Yeah, use your power Farewell to Kings!

    I always feel bad targeting someone so early on. :[

    March 18, 2016
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    Vandy

    I will use my powers and make the result come back innocent.

    Kill Xanadu. <--- My vote since its a stab in the dark.

    March 18, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    Yes, this Xanadu has been asking too many questions for my liking. Let's get rid of him.

    March 18, 2016
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    Vandy

    I agree, reversing the result seems correct. It doesn't hurt that Enforcer is probably one of our more important roles, and we're not guaranteed to actually be able to successfully reverse it for beneficial results later.

    Xanadu is a reasonable kill target--I was going to suggest Spirit of Radio for pretty much the same reason, but that's a better Rush song anyway so I suppose we can let them live. :) I haven't really had a chance to try to analyze people's posts or anything for trends, but usually there aren't many trends D1 anyway.

    @Xhin, will people's real usernames be revealed upon death? Or will they remain a mystery?

    March 18, 2016
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    Circumstances

    mm, no special inclinations on who to stick with the sad news of first kill. And changing the cop result (which it seems you've confirmed already anyway) is probably the better choice imo; the change can be used either offensively or defensively, but at least this way we know it'll have an effect. Besides, you never know - worst case, we could end up minus one Kingpin before another chance to use it comes up.

    March 18, 2016
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    2112

    People's real usernames won't be revealed on death but the dead thread will show the names of everyone who's deceased. It's one of the two perks of dying in this game.

    March 18, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Xanadu it is then.

    March 18, 2016
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    Bubba

    DAY 2

    You guys successfully beat up Spirit of Radio. He is bruised and bloody.

    You also shot Xanadu several times but someone with magic healing powers was able to resuscitate him and give him some morphine. :(

    March 19, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Probably Xanadu himself.

    March 19, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    Sounded like it was a security guard save in the main thread. I was expecting one of us to be in a coma.

    March 19, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    WARNING: CONSPIRACY THEORY

    10:36am
    Cinderella is female, not a man. What's this person hiding?

    Snow Dog Changed his vote to Cinderella Man


    10:37am
    Erg. We're still set on votes applying to day 1. Returning that to No Kill. Fix pl0x.

    Snow Dog Changed his vote to No Kill


    Bumblecop™ investigated Cinderella Man and got a (fake) innocent verdict this morning. Also this morning, someone throws a joke vote at CM, withdrawing it a minute later. Possibly the cop trying to share his results in case he dies before revealing? Possibly me making up cute little coincidental mini-plotlines. You decide!

    March 19, 2016
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    2112

    Always can take a stab at it. Not much to go on anyhow.

    March 20, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    ok cool the aforementioned vote's back disregard previous insane ramblings

    March 20, 2016
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    2112

    I thought the host revealed the Enforcer's target, otherwise I would have chosen a player who didn't post during the first round to hopefully get an inactive player killed.

    Will have to decide what to do with Xanadu. Good chance he is the Doctor, but is it worth trying to take him out under the assumption he saves our Enforcer victim? Interesting note, Xhin gave us a clear message that Xanadu was saved by the doctor, but the town's message could mean either Doc or Security Guard. Not that I'm complaining.

    March 21, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    a little wary about targeting Xanadu, since the security guard might take that as a cue to stake him out (which could easily cost us a member if people don't go inactive for the following round)


    also:
    ok cool the aforementioned vote's back disregard previous insane ramblings

    posted that on the way out the door - to be slightly more specific, he could still be Bumblecop™, just a skeptical one who assumes the Kingpin would've reversed the result if he'd actually checked an innocent

    so, y'know, possibly still worth the attention I guess, just not in that same comical scheming way

    March 21, 2016
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    2112

    Anthem's a possible Cop--he doesn't think Cinderella Man's Mafia. Although we haven't had a Cop check yet this round, which leads me to think one of three things:

    1. The Cop is inactive.
    2. The Cop is deliberately waiting for the end of the day round in order to give the Kingpin less time to decide to change the result (or in order to get more information for their check).
    3. Xhin has forgotten to give us the Cop's result.

    #2 seems like pretty limited strategic benefit, if it even is one at all. This is not exactly an exciting/super helpful deduction, but it's what I've got right now.

    I don't like targeting Xanadu again...with two protection roles, it seems very unlikely to work. The security guard is going to be a huge problem for us so we probably need to find them pretty quickly. I'm unfortunately pretty distracted right now so I'm not sure how helpful I'll be, but the guard and the cop seem like the most dangerous power roles for us (assuming Xanadu is the doctor, but I don't think we'll be able to kill them until the guard is dead).

    March 21, 2016
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    Circumstances

    NIGHT 2

    You may now turn conspiracy theories into conspiracy reality as you plot against the town.

    Mr. Kingpin, you will be pleased to know that the Cop has investigated Anthem, presumably because he has good taste and visits his haberdasher regularly. You can't do anything about this result, but **~~** SPOILER ALERT **~~** it will come back as Innocent.


    Mr Enforcer, it is now time to give a member of the town a pair of matching black eyes.

    And the rest of you scum, it's time to vote.

    March 22, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Interesting note, Xhin gave us a clear message that Xanadu was saved by the doctor

    Oops. Well, I doubt it matters since if it was the security guard, one of you would have been in a coma.

    Although we haven't had a Cop check yet this round, which leads me to think one of three things:

    Actually it's because you guys get the cop check at the beginning of the night round, which you have now received.

    March 22, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    I'll let someone else pick the dead man walking this time around.

    March 22, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    will get back to you on that sort of thing bc I'm a little busy this morning (if anyone else has ideas that'd be great), but since I was reminded to read this more carefully:

    If a power role goes both a day round and a night round without doing anything, I will host kill them and get a townie/mafioso to take their place. This seems fair because of the small number of power roles and the large number of players.

    Non-power roles won't be host killed but they won't be on the short list for getting host killed roles either.

    ...doesn't it give weird metagamey knowledge to the players if only certain roles die after a certain period of inactivity? I haven't thought the specifics over much yet, but it seems like that might be kinda exploitable in an outside-the-spirit-of-the-game sort of way. Passing on power roles from anyone killed for inactivity seems like a neat idea (which is the part that actually registered in my head when I read that topic originally), but it sounds like the time limit itself is also different and I'm not sure about that one.


    ...and on an unrelated note, I remembered that this guy exists:
    Shaman -- Once per night they are given a name. If they successfully convince two other players the following day to vote for that person, they get to be a Watcher during the next night round:

    Watcher - Chooses one person's house to stake out each night and learns who visited that person.


    someone tossing out a "random" vote for somebody might be trying to activate this power. Especially if they don't pursue that same person the following day (moreso if they have a new target in mind). It's a claimable role at the very least, so not a bad target at some point.

    March 22, 2016
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    2112

    I'll probably retract the power roles host kill thing. No one's gone inactive yet and people are even scheming in the power role threads so I don't think this will be an issue.

    I think the balance of the game is pretty close to perfect -- the town has some mean power roles, but the Enforcer keeps the Doctor ineffective, and the Kingpin lessens what the Cop can do. The Rebel ensures that one of those will stay in play.

    March 22, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    The biggest threat you have is the security guard, but I nerfed him so whoever gets beaten up by him comes out of it later.

    March 22, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    No one's gone inactive yet

    You mean, aside from Freewill and Tom Sawyer, who haven't posted in the main thread at all?

    someone tossing out a "random" vote for somebody might be trying to activate this power. Especially if they don't pursue that same person the following day (moreso if they have a new target in mind). It's a claimable role at the very least, so not a bad target at some point.

    Yeah, I was wondering about that with the votes going to Cinderella Man.

    I guess Anthem's not the Cop. Anyone got any ideas on that front? I think we should beat up YYZ, since he's a virtual confirmed innocent that we don't really want to waste a Nightkill on. Not sure who to Nightkill, but not Spirit of Radio (the Doctor should be visiting them tonight), and probably not Xanadu unless we're really wanting to roll the dice. The Trees has been drawing a little suspicion, so maybe not them either.

    March 22, 2016
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    Circumstances

    sounds agreeable

    I think I lean toward killing Working Man, not for any particularly standout reason beyond the fact that we can kinda cut a bunch of names out of the running and it seemed like one of the better potential uses. Open to other ideas, though, and I should be around until night ends (aside from needing to go make dinner after I post this) if there are any other thoughts to be posted. Which I hope there are, since we've apparently got a shortened night round :\

    March 22, 2016
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    2112

    Sorry for just now getting in here, been working since the early am. Can we get this night round extended a few hours?

    What's the stance on host killing inactive players? If they're not going to be killed anytime soon, would it be wise to use the Enforcer on one of them, that way they won't be around to claim they've been beaten up? Could be effective considering the quick day rounds.

    March 23, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    I'll probably retract the power roles host kill thing. No one's gone inactive yet and people are even scheming in the power role threads so I don't think this will be an issue.

    Which leads me to believe that Tom Sawyer and and Freewiil are regular townies, since I can't imagine you would back track on the original killing rule if the town had an inactive power role right off the bat.

    Or one of them is just faking inactivity and is actually scheming.

    March 23, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    well, we've already got about half an hour still, and I can still be here if you want company

    I do think it should be longer, since the actual nightpost came at midnight and it comes with information that we need to properly plan Evil Things, but that's still up to Xhin and I'm just going with what he's already confirmed

    and yeah, that's the kind of stuff that made me wary about the varied kill times bring used as metagamey infogathering. If hostkills are a possibility soon (some players literally haven't posted after two full days) we could just see if they wither away, otherwise if they're inattentive they could be beaten up and left to drop

    March 23, 2016
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    2112

    I'm sorry I haven't been around much to contribute. I am fine with killing Working Man.

    Not that it matters - but I think YYZ is Gwohilo and Spirit Radio is Feral.

    March 23, 2016
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    Fly By Night

    Working Man works for me.

    Re-reading I see where Xhin said inactive players WONT be killed, but I would like a hard confirmation on that stance.

    March 23, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    WM kill and YYZ beating sounds all right imo. Unless we want try picking off an inactive-and-not-getting-hostkilled player with the beating instead (it'd help to know if that'll happen, really).


    and yeah, I've thought over the who's who a little bit but I thought it'd be nice to spend the experimental name-masking game by just taking things at face value. Especially since anyone could be changing up their usual style (sup).

    jo nathan is totally the trees

    March 23, 2016
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    2112

    Let's go ahead and rough up YYZ. Maybe we can convince Xhin to start killing these inactive townies fornus.

    March 23, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    Which leads me to believe that Tom Sawyer and and Freewiil are regular townies, since I can't imagine you would back track on the original killing rule if the town had an inactive power role right off the bat.

    I'm actually just not host killing at all. I keep doing these rounds so late that if I was more strict I'd have to Host Suicide. Soooo.. I'm not being strict. Which is why also I'll count Cinderella Man's last-minute enforcer hit (that and you guys also put out a target for him).

    March 23, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Maybe we can convince Xhin to start killing these inactive townies fornus.

    I'll put it up to popular vote a few rounds hence.. I still want to try to bring them back on board with the game here.

    March 23, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    DAY 3

    You successfully killed Working Man. He worked real hard at being a Townie.

    YYZ is also beat to a pulp.

    March 23, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    At some point we may have to consider not beating people up because we are pretty much confirming their innocence. Are we able to beat each other up to throw them off?

    *punches Cinderella*

    March 23, 2016
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    Fly By Night

    I was just going to suggest that. ;)

    But that is no guarantee that doctor will save us.

    March 23, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    Yeah, that's why I suggested targeting YYZ. He's a roommate claim and we're unlikely to get him lynched anyway, and it'll keep the Doctor busy and away from our Nightkill target.

    March 23, 2016
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    Circumstances

    But that is no guarantee that doctor will save us.
    yeah, this is the sticking point. On the maybe-bright side, Xhin's wording was (presumably intentionally) vague, and only the doctor would be able to confirm that he actually saved Spirit. The catch is that even if we did confirm the doctor's identity, that doesn't get him killed.


    what sucks is that if we don't beat people up, it frees up the doctor to protect at will and doubles the chances of a nightkill being blocked. Still, I guess it's better to be slowed down than caught outright.

    March 23, 2016
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    2112

    We could also revert to beating up people that have already been beaten up--say we hit Spirit of Radio again tonight. No real information to be gleaned from that, yeah?

    March 23, 2016
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    Circumstances

    That seems true too. Sorry Cinderella (nme)

    March 23, 2016
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    Fly By Night

    A beat-up claim is exactly that.. a claim . Even the doctor doesn't know if they were actually beat up or not. If they die, I will say that they "died of their wounds" but not until then will anyone know whether it was an actual enforcer hit or not.

    March 23, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    oh, if that was brought on by what I said above - what I meant was that only the doctor would be able to say whether he had given treatment. If I claimed to be beaten and the doctor ignored me (rude!), but I was still alive the next day, only the doctor could go "whoa hold up I didn't do shit he's a lying liar get the rope." To everyone else it'd look the same as if he had saved my skin (and other organs).

    he'd have to roleclaim to actually share that news, making a target of himself...but he'd still have the security guard to watch his back. Then we'd most likely have to kill the guard to get a clean shot at him...or a safe one, at least.

    on a related note: is the security guard able to protect himself?

    March 23, 2016
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    2112

    Another reason why I wanted to target the two innactive players. I don't think Xhin would let power roles be innactive, especially seeing as two of the players haven't even posted once.

    We could try a fake Enforcer hit to shake things up and establish some townie cred for one of us. A risk for sure, but I think it would be a small one.

    March 23, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    YYZ is claiming that he can't use the roommate thread while beaten up. If that's intentional (I don't remember seeing that mentioned anywhere), we could probably prevent a cop check with a little Enforcing. And that's even nicer than usual, because we'd see that no check was done that day.

    also Jacob's Ladder seems to be implying he's not just a townie. Unless he's just making himself out to be an especially charming townie who'll be sorely missed (in which case that's my line, pal, so step off it).

    March 24, 2016
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    2112

    just for the record:

    I see the points on each side, but right now I think The Trees is more likely to be mafia. I'm not completely set on it, though, so I wood be open to hearing his response.


    it pained me greatly to not say it in the main thread :J

    March 24, 2016
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    2112

    There is unrest in the forest
    There are bad puns for the trees

    March 24, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    The other option is to beat me up.

    The reasoning is either I get 'healed' or I die.

    If I die, someone can take my place and we get to use that nifty result change again.

    If I live, I'm "confirmed" innocent or at least innocent looking which will spawn a cop check probably with the new information.

    March 24, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    @Xhin: Can the Security Guard target themselves? I was assuming they couldn't, but I don't see anything about that in the original thread.

    We're going to have some serious decisions this night round. I think we should limit our two targets to the four confirmed innocents: Xanadu, Trees, Spirit of Radio, and YYZ. We should be able to get at least one of them out tonight unless we're horribly unlucky...and targeting YYZ is probably a mistake since the Doctor has a reasonable chance of visiting them (and if they don't, YYZ dies anyway).

    March 24, 2016
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    Circumstances

    The security guard can target themselves. So can the doctor. I think originally the security guard couldn't target themselves but I already told them they could so.

    At this point any other minor rule nuances are going to end up in your favor so keep finding loopholes!

    March 24, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    well that kinda blows, but it should be an interesting night round. If we're right about the identities of the doctor and guard, it's a tricky night of decisions all around. The doctor is the only one who can save YYZ, and if he does that he can't protect himself. But the guard would need to choose between watching the doctor and himself - assuming he came to the same conclusion about who it is in the first place.

    March 25, 2016
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    2112

    Yeah, two potentially unkillable Town-sided roles is going to be rough. I do, however, think that tonight might be an excellent round to go for Xanadu again. They may not be the actual Doctor (in which case we got REALLY unlucky that first night), but even if they are, this seems like a good night for them not to be covered since they'll probably save YYZ and The Trees will probably be covering themselves. We can beat up Spirit of Radio again maybe? I'm thinking they're a normal Townie, but targeting them wouldn't widen the 'innocent' net.

    Hate to vote off my favorite Rush song...was hoping that not enough people would get on to change the vote, but alas...

    March 25, 2016
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    Circumstances

    NIGHT 3

    ATTENTION MAFIA RED ALERT

    The cop has investigated Fly By Night.. your Kingpin can't do anything about it. :'(

    you may now select someone to give a nice pair of cement shoes and someone else to give a lead pipe to the knees because that's how you roll.

    March 25, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Well.

    I am going to New Orleans tomorrow for a bacherlor trip for the rest of the weekend. I will do my best to give input if I survive much longer, with the impending investigation. But I will be limited to mobile only. Sorry for the inconvenience.

    March 25, 2016
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    Fly By Night

    I'll second the Xanadu kill tonight. We need to start hitting some power roles and with the guard claim out there this might give us a shot.

    March 25, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    it'll be somewhat of a risk no matter when we try going after one of the protective roles, but it's important we do it at some point. Probably better to try sooner rather than later, because if things go poorly and someone ends up in a coma, it'll only be more noticeable as the field narrows down.

    March 25, 2016
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    2112

    What about our beat up target?

    March 25, 2016
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    Farewell to Kings

    Alright, so I'll put in my official vote to kill Xanadu tonight. Willing to change if we decide otherwise, but that would be my first choice.

    I do think Spirit of the Radio is a good beat-up target, but I could also see targeting someone like Anthem. Purely because they've been investigated by the Cop and the Cop is about to get a Guilty verdict, so they might come forward. We could try the sneaky target-one-of-our-own shenanigans, but I think it's too risky for this night round if we think there's a shot we kill the doctor tonight.

    March 25, 2016
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    Circumstances

    Let's beat up Radio tonight.

    March 26, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    DAY 4

    Success! You killed Xanadu and beat up Spirit of Radio without incident

    (Yes I would tell you if the security guard came.. I'd also tell them that they were a hero).

    March 26, 2016
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    If someone had claimed to be beaten up, I'd actually be fine with no killing, because we'd potentially have a ton of info tomorrow, but it looks like the Enforcer wised up. Either he's stopped acting completely or he's targeted an inactive player.

    so hey Xhin, did you remember to tell Spirit that he's beaten up?

    it's possible that he overlooked it or that he's lying to see if he can draw out a mafia member who knows he's lying, but I just want to check

    March 27, 2016
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    2112

    Based on his post I'd say he's lying. Not sure why though, seems risky on his part waiting until the end of a round to claim he's beat up.

    We need to save you somehow.

    March 28, 2016
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    Cinderella Man

    eh

    I don't even really care if he guessed right off a nonsense-ass reason and I die for it, aside from the fact that it puts you guys down a number. I've got player's remorse and I'm not worth sticking your neck out.

    March 28, 2016
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    2112

    Attempting to save Mafia members rarely goes well, and I don't think it's going to work this time--the Town is pretty much as aimless as we are and they're likely to grasp onto whatever straws they can.

    Spirit of Radio could be the Doctor themselves, I suppose, so they could theoretically just not claim to be beat up and cover themselves anyway. Seems unlikely that there's much advantage to be gained there, however, since all it really does is tell the Mafia who they are. Otherwise, they could have some sort of OOG contact with the Doctor.

    We're in a pretty tough spot here--the two Doctor roles are hamstringing a lot of our ability to do things, and we don't really have an indication on who the Doctor or the Cop are. Seems like the Doctor probably just targeted one of the more active players on Night 1, same as we did.

    March 28, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Seems like the town isn't willing to follow Radio on this one. You might make it out alive.

    It's getting late and still no beat up claim.

    March 28, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    nah, it's still 3-1 with no actual alternative offered. It makes sense to kill someone for information, and unless someone gets a wild streak about them (I wouldn't want you guys to start a countervote) I expect it to go through. Best chance (ha) would likely be for YYZlithe to come back and agree with me, making for a 2-2 tie while everyone else remains comatose.

    March 28, 2016
    Edit
    2112

    Just so you guys know, I checked and there's no glitch or anything, Spirit of Radio can definitely see his own role.

    If he isn't playing some crazy strategy, whoever suggested beating up someone who was already beat up is definitely getting a bonus point!

    March 28, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    NIGHT 4

    ATTENTION MAFIA RED ALERT

    The cop has investigated Subdivisions.. which doesn't matter really :D

    enforcer, go enforce.
    mafia, go kill.
    rebel, stay classy.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Well, if Spirit really does bite the dust, that'll give us some much-needed help. It does feel like it's more likely they're in contact with the Doctor OOG or something, just because they've been such a thoughtful player so far it's hard to believe they'd miss that, but maybe not. I haven't spent much time trying to figure out who everyone is, but I've been thinking Spirit is probably the Bandit, who IIRC wasn't huge on OOG communication...but I could also see the Doctor simply messaging everyone who got beat up as they believed they could trust them.

    Aside from that, I really have no idea who the power roles could be. Obviously we should rule Subdivisions and Anthem out of the Cop role, and unless Jacob's Ladder is being very sneaky with his Cinderella Man vote he's probably not the Cop either. Other than that, I don't have a great indication either way, so it might just have to be another random shot in the dark to try to hit the Doc/Cop.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    We could probably beat up YYZ again to keep the Doctor busy...the alternative is to beat up the inactive player or one of our own, or one of the two (Subdivisions and Anthem) that the Cop has checked.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Kill La Villa Strangiato

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Farewell to Kings

    And for no particular reason.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Farewell to Kings

    Is there a way you guys could hold off on killing La Villa Strangiato for a couple of rounds? She's my cousin and I'm trying to get her to start playing with us, which will be hard if she's killed off too early.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    That seems like a big breach of game ethics. So you're saying La Villa is a townie, eh?


    I think XYZ again is a good idea. I don't see a reason to fake a hit on any of us yet.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    So meta....

    XYZ it is

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Farewell to Kings

    I'm not saying anything about her necessarily...

    And yeah I'll subtract some points from myself for that, but I think it's worth it if we get a new player.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Lock XYZ for the enforcer hit.

    We still need to kill one of the unknown players.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    I do generally dislike killing newer players early...feels weird to change the vote based off of that, but I guess we weren't exactly committed to it anyway. Maybe someone like Passage to Bangkok or Jacob's Ladder, as I think both have been reasonably active and engaged. Again, the other alternative is to hit Anthem or Subdivisions, just to cut down on the number of 'confirmed innocents' for when the Cop comes out, though that would mean we would for sure not be hitting the Cop.

    March 29, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    I'm down with Bangkok. Jacob mentioned me in the last thread, his death may tip somebody off.

    March 30, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    DAY 5

    Well that went quite well, mafia scum!

  • YYZ is beat up again
  • Passage to Bangkok is dead
  • Spirit of Radio died from his wounds.

    • March 30, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Not as well as we might have hoped, unfortunately. We can't hit a power role to save our lives.

    March 30, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Should we try and take out Trees on the next night round? Or are we assuming he will be protected?

    March 30, 2016
    Edit
    Fly By Night

    Trees is too obviously the security guard, still think it's too risky hitting him. Really unfortuante that we haven't hit a power role yet, more so the doctor.

    March 31, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Yep, if I were Trees, I would be covering myself every night--too risky to do otherwise. So they'll be effectively invincible this game. I'm sure they'll occasionally try to protect someone else, but it's so brutal if we target them that we really can't risk it unless/until we get desperate. That's why, from a Mafia game design perspective, I think all Doctor-type roles should either not be able to protect themselves or shouldn't be able to save the same person twice in a row--otherwise, they're both powerful and boring as far as gameplay goes.

    March 31, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Just wanted a list of the players left in the game (on the Town side):

    2. Anthem - Not the Cop
    3. By-Tor
    4. Snow Dog
    12. The Trees - Security Guard
    13. La Villa Strangiato
    15. Freewill - COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY INACTIVE
    16. Jacob's Ladder
    18. YYZ - Roommate
    19. Limelight
    20. Subdivisions - Not the Cop

    We still have the Doctor, Cop, second Roommate, and Shaman as Town-sided power roles we don't know. Obviously the Shaman and second Roommate are pretty low-priority, but they're still better hits than vanilla Townies. We've gotta be dangerously close to the Town just auto-winning if they roleclaimed, simply because we've hit so many Townies.

    March 31, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    On the plus side, most of the Town seems less active now that Spirit of the Radio is dead. If most of us can dodge elimination for a couple of rounds, we might be able to shape the course of the game. Of course, that'll require that we hit some power roles--hitting the Cop or Doctor seems necessary, especially if we can hit the Cop before they reveal their Guilty verdict on Fly By Night.

    March 31, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    If their cop is active it would be a great time for him to role claim and give his results while having the Watcher protection.

    March 31, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Yeah, they really should. I think they're probably playing this game too passively given that they have two protection roles AND now a Watcher--before The Trees was forced to roleclaim, I would have said the Cop should have claimed right away and started sharing information, though with both protection roles occupied (Doctor with the Enforcer, Security Guard saving himself) it made more sense to stay quiet. If we could only hit the broad side of a barn with our Nightkills, we might be able to punish them for it!

    It is nice that we've got it narrowed down to effectively four players: Snow Dog, La Villa Strangiato, Jacob's Ladder, and Limelight. Theoretically, the Cop should believe that Cinderella Man is innocent, so unless Jacob's Ladder is being sneaky (or suspects Kingpin involvement) we may be able to rule them out as well. If a Limelight lynch does happen, we'll have a good shot at hitting the Cop tonight (and we may get a little more info based on their investigation today).

    March 31, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    It can't be La Villa Strangiato. Xhin told us not to vote for her. If she were the cop that would be pretty game-changing.

    April 1, 2016
    Edit
    Fly By Night

    Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well--I'd certainly be pissed if the Host requested the Mafia not target the Cop. Looks like we'll get Limelight out today, so if they're not the Cop we'll have to decide between Snow Dog and Jacob's Ladder. I guess there's also an outside chance that Freewill is the Cop, but it'd be pretty lame for someone to be allowed to post only in their power role thread and not the main thread (IMO they should be Hostkilled if their posting glitch isn't going to be fixed anytime soon, just without the point penalty. Doesn't make any sense to have someone in the game who can't play).

    April 1, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Just glanced over the posts the two of them made...not much to go on, really. Ironically, both of them voted for Cinderella Man after the Cop investigated him, and neither of them has said anything about Fly By Night. JL has been quite a bit more active despite a posting glitch early on, and I could easily see his vote for Cinderella Man as an indication that they don't believe the result they got or that they're trying to throw us off their trail. It could also be exactly what it appears, so it's basically a toss-up. Depending on who they investigate today, the entire game might hinge on us hitting the Cop tonight.

    April 1, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    NIGHT 5

    The Bublecop (tm) not-so-bumbled his way into investigating Circumstances.

    You may now kill and enforce.

    You can also complain about how unfairly the deck is stacked against you, because I'm having a good conversation with 2112 about that in the afterlife.

    April 2, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well--I'd certainly be pissed if the Host requested the Mafia not target the Cop.

    I wouldn't do that. Feel free to vote for her again though since you guys have a valid reason now -- I mostly had an issue with a random kill of her.

    April 2, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    We're pretty lucky the town is playing so conservative right now. This could get rough if we don't hit the cop tonight.

    Will using the Enforcer on the Watcher tonight make his ability useless since you can't enter your own thread beat up? Or will he know his result when he is allowed back in his thread?

    April 2, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Will using the Enforcer on the Watcher tonight make his ability useless since you can't enter your own thread beat up?

    Yes it would. In fact it would make the Cop useless as well :)

    April 2, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    In that case, kill Snow Dog and beat up Jacob's Ladder?

    April 2, 2016
    Edit
    Fly By Night

    The only issue with that is that if we're wrong, we also won't be able to kill Jacob's Ladder the next round because the Doctor will cover the 'beat up' person. It would keep them from revealing me for one round, but they'd 100% be alive for the next round anyway.

    As for Snow Dog vs. Jacob's Ladder, the main thing that leads me toward JL maybe being it was that when they received votes earlier, they said something like 'seriously, voting for me is a terrible idea.' Could be an indication of a power role. Main thing that implicates Snow Dog is that JL has been voicing suspicions of Cinderella Man, who would have had an Innocent verdict. Other than that, the only reason Snow Dog's a suspect is process of elimination. Feels like a toss-up to me and I could go either way, but we're pretty dead if we miss tonight. If we do, I'll probably claim Cop on the next day round and try to get the real one lynched.

    As far as the deck being stacked against us this game, I think the main thing is that none of the Mafia roles are very powerful. The Enforcer potentially is, but it's pretty much canceled out by the Doctor, and the rest of us might as well have been vanilla Mafiosos. Meanwhile, the Town has a Cop and the Security Guard (who is one of the most powerful roles we've seen on GTX0), as well as a Shaman who can game the system and the Roommates, which provides a couple of easily confirmed innocents. We've gotten a bit unlucky with hitting only Townies thus far, but I do think the strength of the power roles was slanted pretty far towards the Town. I do like the idea of the Bumbling Cop role, though.

    April 2, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    I think Jacob's Ladder is the better kill target. Reading through his posts while nothing screams cop, he gives off a certain vibe. He's been abstract about, something a cop might do. While Snow Dog on the other hand hasn't given us any information.

    Definitely agree with Circumstance concerning the Enforcer hit. Hitting an unconfirmed townie at this point just gives the Town more ammo against us. Our best bet is to use the Enforcer on By Thor to eliminate the threat of him staking us out.

    Or maybe it's best NOT to use the Enforcer at this stage. A security guard hit would be pretty bad at this point. By Thor would be good fodder for the guard to check tonight.

    Then there is Freewill, since Xhin has made it clear that no host kill is coming anytime soon. He could be a safe option to beat up.

    April 2, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Yeah, as tempting as it would be to beat up By Thor we probably shouldn't. Beating up Freewill is probably safest.

    Also fine with killing Jacob's Ladder.

    April 3, 2016
    Edit
    Fly By Night

    Alright, I'll vote Jacob's Ladder, then. Agreed that he's generally felt like he was playing more like a power role might, whereas Snow Dog would basically have to be playing an intentionally under-the-radar role and playing it very well.

    As for beating someone up, Freewill is fine. The only other thing to consider is that if we do beat up Freewill, the Doctor is likely to cover themselves so we won't be able to kill them (since no one will be able to claim being beaten up). Then again, we'd basically just be guessing at the Doctor anyway at probably a 25% chance of hitting.

    April 3, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Sounds like a plan.

    Beat up Freewill, Xhin.

    April 3, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    DAY 6

    You guys successfully beat up Freewill.

    You also successfully killed Jacob's Ladder, who was the Doctor :o

    That means two things:

  • You now basically get two kills per night because someone beat up can't be cured

  • I'm going to start announcing day changes in red because you deserve it!

    • April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    This is weird. Snow Dog's posted and hasn't roleclaimed, and it seems insane not to come out with two Guilty verdicts and several Innocent ones. Maybe La Villa Strangiato is the Cop after all, or maybe it's Freewill. Otherwise, I guess either one of our claimed power roles is lying (which is very risky for a Town-sided player as they might induce the real power role to counterclaim), or the Cop investigated themselves (in which case, my money's on Anthem due to that comment about not thinking Cinderella Man was Mafia). If the second is true, that's very sly indeed.

    I was going to falseclaim Cop this round, but now I'm not confident on what to do. Plus, I've been out of the house for 15 hours today, so nothing will get done tonight!

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    If not for Xhin's urge not to kill Strangiato, I'd pin the cop on her. A new player might not understand the need to role claim.

    This might sound risky, but what if we tried to lynch Trees this round? The town hasn't been as outraged at killing someone claiming to be a guard as one might expect. I think XYZ would be for it. We could paint Freewill as a possible guard gone inactive.

    Trees being dead would give us automatic two kills from here on out.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    We've been exposed! D:

    They're already onboard the "murder me" train. I don't see much of a chance for myself here. Maybe the best I can do is to ... go out in style. (duke)

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Fly By Night

    Let the bleeding begin.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    The room mate roles may screw us out of our last ditch effort to keep me alive over Subdivisions.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Counter claim isn't going to do much good at this point. I think our best chance going forward is to keep myself alive for as many rounds as possible to double up on the kills.

    So we'll lose Fly this round and then somehow get Circumstances killed over me. It's an up hill climb anyway you look at it.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Anthem, you sly dog, you totally got me! That was a pretty awesome move--in the back of my mind, I had considered the possibility of the Cop checking themselves to throw us off, but the second round seemed like a strange time for it because I figured it would either happen right away, or later on when they realized that we might be able to figure out their identity through their checks. The timing, as it turned out, was pretty perfect, as I might have pushed to kill Anthem that night based off the comment about Cinderella Man if they hadn't been investigated that day.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    I don't know what Trees is smoking, but I wish we could retract our Freewill beat up now.....

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Just voted to end the day round and Town discussion. I have a few thoughts about how to salvage our (very slim) chances of winning this game, but I don't have time to post them yet.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    If Anthem investigates Farewell to Kings, we obviously have to try to kill them tonight. We might be mathematically dead if Anthem investigates one of the nonconfirmed Townies (we could even be dead now, but I haven't checked). In that case, we need to kill them unless they investigate Freewill or Cinderella Man.

    That said, if I were The Trees I would 100% be covering Anthem tonight--I think leaving yourself vulnerable is definitely worth guaranteeing one extra Cop check at this point in the game, so it's just the right play. I don't expect targeting Anthem to work, but our only shot is that we can outrace the Town's attempts to vote off non-confirmed players with the Enforcer. In that case, Helius will almost certainly be the only one of us left standing. Unless our hand is forced to vote for Anthem tonight, we may be better off targeting The Trees because we need our kill tonight to go through.

    Either way, I think we beat up By Tor tonight.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Quick question for the mafia

    Have any of you guys played a game where a Watcher was in play?

    If so, how does it react to Mafia kills? Would everyone that voted to kill the watched person be shown as visiting them? Or all the mafia? Or none of the mafia, only power roles that target them?

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    I've usually played that they would see the first Mafia member that voted to kill the target.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    It seems that my inactive playing is both a blessing and curse but I think my days are numbered if we don't do something amazing.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Farewell to Kings

    Looks like you're going to be the path to victory, if there is one. Reminder that I came back and won as the sole remaining mafia back in game 18 in a similar situation, so it's do-able.

    The Freewill activity from Tree late in the day was interesting. Anthem or By Thor may be persuaded to check into him.

    April 4, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    NIGHT 6

    Sure enough...

    Anthem has investigated Freewill. Who dies next turn.

    Go kill someone and beat up someone else.

    April 5, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Alright. Do we take the risk on trying to kill The Trees, or do we go for the obvious play of hitting Anthem? Still think beating up By Tor is the right play.

    If Xhin's going by the 'Watcher sees first player to vote for the Mafia kill target' rule I mentioned, I should be the first one to vote for our eventual target since I'm dead meat anyway.

    April 5, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    If Xhin's going by the 'Watcher sees first player to vote for the Mafia kill target' rule I mentioned

    Yeah I'll do it that way. Makes the most sense.

    April 5, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    I'm down for a Tree kill. I'm sure he'll protect Anthem or By Thor.

    The enforcer hit is riskier. We could probably hit someone like YyYZ or Sub and guarantee we get the kill.

    April 5, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Alright, I'll vote for The Trees. We're in a desperate enough situation that we have to take some risks, I think.

    I still like beating up By Tor just because I think it's more likely The Trees covers Anthem, but it's your call. YYZ and Substitute are certainly safer picks.

    April 5, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Welp, lets beat up Tor.

    Consider this the second vote for Trees, Xhin {duck}

    April 5, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    NOTE

    because of the precedent I've established with enforcer hits and the lack of a doctor, if you guys successfully manage to hit a power role with the enforcer, it's equivalent to stripping them of their power.

    If you hit, say, the Cop tonight, then the cop wouldn't be able to investigate anyone or receive results, and then would die the day after that.

    The exception of course is protector roles, because they resolve before mafia hits.

    April 5, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    You guys go over to The Trees' house, with pipes and crowbars, intending on beating him to death.

    However when you get in the door, you can't see him anywhere.. when.. POW! The Trees roundhouse kicks the Kingpin in the face, knocking him out cold.

    You leave him behind as you run away from The Trees...

    but on your way into the forest, you notice By-Tor with a video camera. He was watching the whole thing!

    Not wanting to let your crowbars and pipes go to waste, you smash his video camera and also his brain. He limps off, an amnesiac with no evidence of your wrongdoing and doomed to die in a day.

    Summary

  • The Trees prevented his own death. He knows that he did so because.. duh.

  • The Kingpin (Farewell to Kings) is in a Coma for a day and night round.

  • By-Tor was watching The Trees, and got some evidence that Circumstances targeted him.

  • However, you guys successfully beat him up, so he no longer has access to his Shaman thread

  • By-Tor doesn't know Circumstances was involved

  • By-Tor can't use his Shaman powers (although he'll probably try anyway...)

  • By-Tor will die at the start of Day 8.

  • The town knows none of this.

    • April 7, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Meh, good beats. I think it was probably mathematically incorrect for the SG to cover themselves rather than the Cop last night, but it'll work out anyway.

    April 7, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Well, unless we can pull something off, looks like I'll be the last mafia standing. :(

    April 7, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Yeah I'm sorry this game is so horribly stacked against you. It kept looking like the mafia was overpowered so I kept scaling them back.

    April 7, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Meh, it can go both ways. The game would be flipped if we were able to snope the cop out before he revealed. Just the nature of the game.

    April 7, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    True. Also not helpful that the cop got so many guilty results so quickly.

    April 7, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    For the mafia to win this Anthem has to die tonight. Strangiato or Snow Dog being confirmed as innocent would make it mathematically impossible to pull it out.

    Our only hope lies in Trees playing stubborn and protecting himself the rest of the way.

    April 8, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Yeah, I think the game was unbalanced in favor of the Town, but the fact remains that Anthem made a sneaky play and got me off his trail. We also got pretty unlucky on the first night in that we managed to pick the exact same target as the Doctor out of 20 players, and that the Cop hit Cinderella Man on what I assume was a pretty random check. Wasn't surprised that I was checked--I think I acted pretty suspiciously the round before.

    Might as well kill Anthem tonight and see what happens, I agree.

    April 8, 2016
    Edit
    Circumstances

    Edit the town thread and put a 'Innocent?' by name, please. Gotta work with us, Xhin.

    Kill Anthem, beat up Subdivisions.

    April 10, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Night 7

    The cop is Going to investigate Farewell to Kings!

    Time to beat up someone and kill someone else while you guys still habe a chance!

    April 10, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    He is still going to investigate Kings? Let me re-think my kill then....

    April 10, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Yeah, stick with it. Kill Anthem, beat up Subdivisions.

    April 10, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    I just realized that the only other remaining mafia is in a coma. Whoops.

    April 11, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Farewell to Kings wakes up. You stayed by his side when the doctors said he might wake up.

    "Let's go kill that Cop and end this," you say, and Farewell agrees with you.

    You guys go over to Anthem's house, with pipes and crowbars, intending on beating him to death.

    However when you get in the door, you can't see him anywhere.. when.. POW! The Trees roundhouse kicks the Kingpin in the face, knocking him out cold.

    "Not again!" Cries Cinderella Man, springing off into forest before the security guard can see his face.

    "Yeah, you'd better run, mafia scum!" Says the Trees.

    Anthem looks down. "Hmm, just as I suspected, this guy is mafia!"

    ---

    In your anger, you ransack Subdivisions' house and beat him up.

    Summary

  • Farewell to Kings is in a coma... again.

  • Anthem knows he's Mafia.

  • You tried to kill Anthem but the Trees saved him.

  • You did successfully beat up Subdivisions.

    More than likely, you're the last hope that the Mafia has.. if Anthem holds to the idea that Fly By Night being a mafia means that you're actually innocent, you still have a shot at winning. It'll be really hard though!

    • April 11, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Really odd that Anthem chose to investigate Kings after already knowing he was mafia. Did he give any insight to this in his thread? Basically gives me an extra round to play around.

    Only path I can see is if Anthem is dead. I like the idea of targeting him twice in a row, maybe it will mess with our security guard's head.

    April 11, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Remember that the cop puts in their investigation during the Day round.

    April 11, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Night 8

    You may now choose someone to kill and someone to beat up.

    April 11, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Kill Anthem, beat up YYZ.

    April 11, 2016
    Edit
    Cinderella Man

    Poor YYZ just keeps getting beat up :'(

    April 11, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Well, that's game (probably).

    April 11, 2016
    Edit
    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    This thread is locked