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Mafia

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game x thread 1 night 1 wake me up when september ends

Posted August 13, 2012 by hezekiah

Night 0

Greetings and welcome to Mafia X. The town springs into being, and the being is tired. But who's tired? Let's meet the roster.

1. Yeano
2. White Thunder
3. chiefsonny
4. Feral
5. white lancer
6. Frustro
7. Kyon
8. CtR Black
9. Xhin
10. Count Dooku
11. MajorasMask9
12. `Roxas`
13. Black Yoshi
14. Trever Leingod
15. Zanic
16. Female Alpha Wolf
17. Redack
18. Jo Nathan
19. Shadowwalked

Starting Mafia-Town ratio: 5-14

Roles: Lazy Janitor, Thug, Mafioso, Evil Twin, Good Twin, Distracted Doctor, Drug Dealer, Double-Voter, Orange Agent, Gambler, Townie.

Lazy Janitor: Like a normal Janitor, this role hides bodies. However, he's limited to 5 throughout the whole game. But, he can hide more than one per night.
Thug: In this game, the Thug is not forced to take a lynch for a mafia member. Only if a night kill targets a mafia member would the Thug take the hit.
Evil Twin / Good Twin. Like the Governor, these roles prevent lynching. During the night round, they each can pick any number of people to protect from a lynch in the following day round. Each person in the game may only be protected once per twin. When one twin dies, the grief-stricken other twin dies during at the beginning of the next night round.
Distracted Doctor: A Doctor who may not repeatedly protect the same player.
Orange Agent: "Kill it with fire!" A combination Vigilante and Paranoid Gun Owner, this player may burn down a player's house each night. Every other player whose action takes them to that house dies. If the player targeted visits somebody else, they will not die (since they're not in the home when it burns). There's a 25% probability that the Orange Agent also dies in the fire. Roles will not be matched to players that die in a fire, since the bodies are burned beyond recognition.
Drug Dealer. Each night, they may pick one player, and either Stimulant or Depressant. If a stimulant is given, that player performs their night action immediately after the Drug Dealer. If a depressant is given, that player performs their night action last.

Night action priority
1. Drug Dealer choice
2. Gambler guess
3. Orange Agent kill(s)
4. Mafia kill
5. Thug save
6. Doctor save
7. Janitor hide(s)
8. Twins protection(s)

Other notes:
  • No Night/Dead talk
  • 24 hours per night round, 72 hours or 60% per day round.

    • There are 135 Replies

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    Contact info
    AIM: thehezy
    email: hezekiah(1000-43)@gmail.com

    24 hours or until all night actions have been taken.

    August 13, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    Day 1

    The town awakens after their brief abduction, and now must determine how to sniff out the traitors in their midst. Shouldn't be too hard, really; they haven't showered in weeks.

    Roster
    1. Yeano
    2. White Thunder
    3. chiefsonny
    4. Feral
    5. white lancer
    6. Frustro
    7. Kyon
    8. CtR Black
    9. Xhin
    10. Count Dooku
    11. MajorasMask9
    12. `Roxas`
    13. Black Yoshi
    14. Trever Leingod
    15. Zanic
    16. Female Alpha Wolf
    17. Redack
    18. Jo Nathan
    19. Shadowwalked

    Starting Mafia-Town ratio: 5-14
    Lazy Janitor, Thug, Mafioso, Evil Twin, Good Twin, Distracted Doctor, Drug Dealer, Double-Voter, Orange Agent, Gambler, Townie

    72 hours or 12 votes for the same option.

    August 14, 2012
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    hezekiah

    *yawns and stretches* First one here? {8D}

    Well, shall we get down to business?

    August 14, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Just you and me so far, it seems.

    August 14, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    Let's play a game of Marco Polo with the Mafia...

    Ahem... Marco!

    August 14, 2012
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    Noctis Lucis Caelum

    Since I am dealing with an unexpected computer issue related absence at least until tomorrow night, it's a good thing I am expendable and have no night action to hold up everybody with.

    Sorry, guys.

    Nice to see you active this time around, Jo! {:P}

    August 14, 2012
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    Feral

    lol thanks. It's easier this time because I'm not in the no-service wilderness. I'm just at work.

    August 14, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    So far it looks like the usual First Day No Kill, but as usual we'll have to see what develops in order to cast a vote.

    August 14, 2012
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    Black Yoshi

    This is going to be very different.

    The first time without a Cop to help us find out who shows up guilty and is Mafia. And no 3rd party roles.
    Because of this, even though they have fewer numbers, it is going to give the Mafia an advantage over us because they know who they are and since we have no Cop, it's going to depend on luck for the most part.

    My question is:
    With no Cop or other investigator role what the hell do we need a Doctor for?

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Mafia still have to kill... Doctor could save the Orange Agent... This would, I'd assume, prevent the 25% of the Agent dying and technically shouldn't kill the Doctor since he visited the agent not the house in question, but then I suppose its whether or not the host counts that as the doctor visiting the burning house? (perhaps if he could let us know {:P})

    A combination Vigilante and Paranoid Gun Owner

    I'm not sure I see it as a combination of those two at all... Seems more a like an "Insane Arsonist" type role as he has a chance to kill himself.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    Let's play a game of Marco Polo with the Mafia...

    Ahem... Marco!


    ~jumps out of the pool~

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    Although I just realised the doctor can't consistently protect the same person so... {:P}

    August 14, 2012
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    Redack

    The other power roles in the game, maybe?

    Unless somebody slips up in the game, we're going to have to resort to a few things:

    Option One:

    Give the Orange Agent full reign over the town at Night in hopes of selecting the same person as the Mafia to take out at least one Mafia.

    Option Two:

    We do what we HATE doing, and that's doing a random vote and allow all night actions do as they please.

    Option Three:

    Ask the Orange Agent to refrain from using his/her power unless we have come to a majority agreement (may I suggest 2/3?) but do not want to lynch (or we have chosen to lynch somebody and a majority are suspicious of somebody else). This minimizes any chance of taking out multiple power roles that will be beneficial in the long run.


    If anybody has any other suggestions, I'm all ears.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    This would, I'd assume, prevent the 25% of the Agent dying and technically shouldn't kill the Doctor since he visited the agent not the house in question, but then I suppose its whether or not the host counts that as the doctor visiting the burning house?

    Both the Doctor and Agent would survive in this case, correct.


    As for why I consider it Vig/PGO: you kill somebody (Vig) and everyone else who visits them (PGO).

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    A Doctor who may not repeatedly protect the same player.

    And therein lies another problem.

    The Orange Agent would have to reveal in order for the Doc to protect him/her, knowing that the protection would not be there all the time.

    So I really don't see any advantage for anyone to reveal in this game.

    August 14, 2012
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    chiefsonny
     

    So a LunaVigOwner?

    There really isn't, especially with the Janitor in play and the circumstances that surround him.

    August 14, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Sweet. This is an interesting role choice.

    August 14, 2012
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    Zanic

    Sweet. This is an interesting role choice.

    Personally I think its a bit in favour of the Mafia (but there's been so many games where its been in favour of the town so {:P})


    Option One:

    Give the Orange Agent full reign over the town at Night in hopes of selecting the same person as the Mafia to take out at least one Mafia.


    For now this seems a good strategy. There's nothing to go on and the Agent may get lucky and take out a mafia. The mafia can also block our lynches with the evil twin (as can the good twin) but only the doctor can stop a night kill. They can use that for a few strategies, best to avoid it by letting the agent make the kills.


    Option Two:

    We do what we HATE doing, and that's doing a random vote and allow all night actions do as they please.


    This is a tough one. The mafia can influence the "randomness" of the vote, as well it increases our chances of hitting a townie making it easier for mafia to get their kills. For now I think it'd be better to let the game roll on with as few kills as possible, the longer the game goes on for the more chance a mafia member might slip up in what they say.


    Option Three:

    Ask the Orange Agent to refrain from using his/her power unless we have come to a majority agreement (may I suggest 2/3?) but do not want to lynch (or we have chosen to lynch somebody and a majority are suspicious of somebody else). This minimizes any chance of taking out multiple power roles that will be beneficial in the long run.


    I say let the Orange Agent do as they want in the early part of the game until either they die or we start getting lower on townies. Later in the game, if the agent is still around, then it's time to start making more strategic kills with a town consensus. In the meantime he can see people's suspicions and will have his own.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    Yeah, our Town-sided special roles really aren't going to help us much this time--the Gambler and the Double-voter for obvious reasons, and the Good Twin as well since it's just a Governor redux and (since they select their target during the previous night round) might actually inadvertently get in the way of a Town lynch. The Doctor and the Drug Dealer are really only useful as support roles to more powerful Town-sided roles, so in this game they're pretty useless and the Doctor can't even pull the 'invincible Doctor' card to get himself to the end as a 100% trustworthy target.

    The Orange Agent is an interesting role, but I'm not sure how useful it is to the Town winning the game. Targeting 'suspicious' individuals isn't going to help at all because if he targets a member of the Mafia, they will escape by targeting someone else during the night (i.e. the Mafia kill). Plus, if we find someone suspicious, it's far better for us to know whether we've killed a Mafia member or not than to have their bodies charred beyond recognition.

    Without any powerful roles on either side except for the Janitor, this is going to turn into a more basic game where we're ultimately force to go based on our instincts. That means we should never be in a rush to end a round, because we're not getting any new information during the night round; the only information we get in this game happens during the day round and it's of questionable quality, so we need to take advantage of the day rounds as much as possible. Ending the round just gives the Mafia a chance to take one of us out without actually helping us any.

    August 14, 2012
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    white lancer

    Question for hezekiah: the Twins don't know who each other are, right?

    August 14, 2012
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    white lancer

    The mafia can influence the "randomness" of the vote

    Not if we just go by the "-- Random --" option. It ensures unbiased randomness for all parties.


    Glad to actually get some feedback on idea that I have for a change. Thanks, Redack. {:P}

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    Not if we just go by the "-- Random --" option. It ensures unbiased randomness for all parties.

    Yea but that would put the random votes all over the place, which ok isn't a bad thing but makes the whole voting a mess and disorganised. I suppose we could just go with the first random vote made in the day. However with the cop we do need to rely on prolonging the day rounds (as Lancer has suggested)

    The Orange Agent is an interesting role, but I'm not sure how useful it is to the Town winning the game. Targeting 'suspicious' individuals isn't going to help at all because if he targets a member of the Mafia, they will escape by targeting someone else during the night (i.e. the Mafia kill).

    Hrm that's actually true, the mafia aren't going to be in their home during the night... However if a house burns down and no one is in it, that does tell us that person has a night action that targets others (or in the mafia case they were out killing).

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    Without the cop*

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    How does the random option work here? I didn't know we had such a thing.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    Jo Nathan

    Hrm that's actually true, the mafia aren't going to be in their home during the night.


    Could be wrong, but I think for the purpose of a night kill, everyone is considered as being in their room. It's not like the Mafia have a hideout. If that was the case you could never kill one of them at night.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    The Orange Agent is an interesting role, but I'm not sure how useful it is to the Town winning the game. Targeting 'suspicious' individuals isn't going to help at all because if he targets a member of the Mafia, they will escape by targeting someone else during the night (i.e. the Mafia kill). Plus, if we find someone suspicious, it's far better for us to know whether we've killed a Mafia member or not than to have their bodies charred beyond recognition.

    I guess I see your point there. Those weren't full proof options, obviously, but options nonetheless that we can debate upon on this first day. Also, why vote for Xhin with nothing to go off of this early?

    the Twins don't know who each other are, right?

    By the looks of things, they're on opposite teams, so I think it is doubtful they do know the identity of one another.

    (or in the mafia case they were out killing).

    Maybe they went out for groceries or to farm some land or something, y'know?

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    How does the random option work here? I didn't know we had such a thing.

    In the "Vote For" Panel below the reply box, "-- Random --" is the third option. And it goes a little something like this:

    August 14, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Of course, I will not keep my vote there, so I will now rescind it by changing to the "-- Not Voting --" option.

    August 14, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    The random option just picks someone out of the voting list at random and makes your vote for that person. It also clarifies that the vote you made was a random one.

    Don't really have anything to add right now except that without a cop this is going to be pretty difficult. Roleclaiming isn't even going to be too viable an option considering the amount of vanilla townies, and I doubt it would be too viable in the future since there's a janitor in play. Seems like this will be mostly luck-based for a town win.

    That said I do think we should lynch today, though. We won't get any new information, so there's no point in waiting with a no-kill.

    August 14, 2012
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    MajorasMask9

  • The Evil Twin and Good Twin have not been told (by me, at least) the identity of their counterpart
  • Only the first mafia vote for their night target is considered to be leaving home. Additional voters stay home
  • The Janitor would also leave his house if he attempts to hide any bodies
  • The Thug leaves his house only if he is going to die for somebody. I think of it as an "emergency call" button

    • August 14, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    I agree Majora, which was part of my reasoning in Option Two. Seems like it would be the only way to get any information.

    August 14, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Hrm that's actually true, the mafia aren't going to be in their home during the night... However if a house burns down and no one is in it, that does tell us that person has a night action that targets others (or in the mafia case they were out killing).

    Yeah, but that night action could be one of our special roles instead, and our Orange Agent would have to reveal in order to tell us that information. If I'm understanding this correctly, the only way the Orange Agent will ever actually kill any Mafia member is if s/he and the Mafia select the same target in the same night.

    With that in mind, the Thug seems almost 100% irrelevant--since he only protects against Night Kills and the only Night Kill we can perform is the OA (which, as of the beginning of the game, only has a 1/19 chance of actually hitting the Mafia), his only role will be to be the first Mafia member to die on the off chance that the OA and the Mafia hit the same person.

    Also, why vote for Xhin with nothing to go off of this early?

    Tradition. :P I don't actually want to vote Xhin off this round, at least not right away.

    One interesting question that I have is whether it might be worth it to have the Good Twin reveal themselves. There's a risk the Mafia might target them, but if they do then they'd be sacrificing one of their own members (and the member with the second most powerful Mafia ability). If s/he revealed, we'd have at least one member of the Town that we know not to lynch, and if we ever get to a point of desperation we'd know that we could lynch them in order to get a sure Mafia kill.

    August 14, 2012
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    white lancer

    Only the first mafia vote for their night target is considered to be leaving home. Additional voters stay home

    That changes things a little bit and makes the Thug a little more relevant. Still, odds are we'll have only three Mafia members at home when the Orange Agent strikes so his chances of hitting aren't great.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    Good thinking, lancer. I think, as you said, it should be only a desperation kill for the Good Twin/Evil Twin combo. We should set a boundary for what "desperation" is. It all depends on whether we can weed out the Mafia though.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    I think a desperation kill would be when we're down to only having two more players than the Mafia (so, like when we're at 7-5). We CANNOT vote off the Good Twin if we're only up by one player, because the Evil Twin doesn't die until the Night Round begins so I'm guessing that means that the Mafia would win the game if we tied our numbers that way.

    August 14, 2012
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    white lancer

    So at seven or eight as it stands? That's good enough for me.

    August 14, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    It would make things interesting if the twins could recognize each other.... you know, since they're twins. {:P}

    Anyway, sorry I don't have anything useful to contribute to the discussion. I'm kinda just waiting for more information to come out.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    Jo Nathan

    With that in mind, the Thug seems almost 100% irrelevant--since he only protects against Night Kills and the only Night Kill we can perform is the OA (which, as of the beginning of the game, only has a 1/19 chance of actually hitting the Mafia), his only role will be to be the first Mafia member to die on the off chance that the OA and the Mafia hit the same person.

    Can't the Thug also pick to sacrifice himself during the day round in the place of someone that's going to be lynched, be it a mafia or a townie? I've never considered that a completely useful part to the role, but he can still do it.

    The Good Twin revealing seems like a good idea though. The mafia are unlikely to want to kill the evil twin by killing the good twin and it narrows it down by one person for us (yay!). Plus as you said, provides us with a means to remove a mafia should we require it.

    August 14, 2012
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    Redack

    It would make things interesting if the twins could recognize each other.... you know, since they're twins.

    Heh, maybe they are fraternal and were separated at birth, but still live in the same town. ;)

    Can't the Thug also pick to sacrifice himself during the day round in the place of someone that's going to be lynched, be it a mafia or a townie? I've never considered that a completely useful part to the role, but he can still do it.

    Yeah, he can do that, but like you said I never considered that to be very useful so I didn't mention it. ^_^

    August 14, 2012
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    white lancer

    I was thinking the same idea about revealing. That being said, I am the Good Twin.

    I was thinking about revealing due to the fact that if you guys lynch me, we'd get a free mafia kill. And also so the mafia would not try to kill me due to the fact that they would lose a member.

    August 14, 2012
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    Zanic

    ...or they're identical and mirror one another's movements so perfectly that both think they're looking in a mirror...{troll}

    Anyway, this is certainly an interesting game. Seems both sides are pretty much even with one another, since neither side has a way of figuring out the other save for by blind luck. Then again, the Mafia does know who one another are, whereas we don't know who anyone is (unless we all reveal, which given the circumstances is downright foolish regardless of what's going on in the game).

    A question arises: let's say the Orange Agent manages to kill all of the Mafia, leaving their bidoes burnt beyond recognition. Since we wouldn't be able to recognize who they are, would we still win the game, or would it keep going until the whole town is decimated, or end in a dead draw?

    August 14, 2012
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    Black Yoshi

    And so there is a breakthrough on Day One.

    August 14, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    If multiple people die in a single night from the Orange Agent, I will provide 2 lists:
    1) The people who died
    2) The roles who died


    In case anyone was curious, the Thug may not kill him/herself in place of a twin's suicide, nor may the Doctor prevent it. However, the death won't be announced until the following day round, since it does take place during the night.

    August 14, 2012
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    hezekiah

    Is there a rule against breaking the fourth wall?

    August 14, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    In case anyone was curious, the Thug may not kill him/herself in place of a twin's suicide, nor may the Doctor prevent it. However, the death won't be announced until the following day round, since it does take place during the night.

    I actually was wondering about that, so thanks for the pre-emptive answer.

    If multiple people die in a single night from the Orange Agent, I will provide 2 lists:
    1) The people who died
    2) The roles who died

    Does this mean that if only one person dies from the Orange Agent their role will essentially be confirmed? Or do we only get roles with multiple deaths?

    August 14, 2012
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    white lancer

    A question arises: let's say the Orange Agent manages to kill all of the Mafia, leaving their bidoes burnt beyond recognition. Since we wouldn't be able to recognize who they are, would we still win the game, or would it keep going until the whole town is decimated, or end in a dead draw?

    We'd win. The goal is to kill all mafia, not know you've killed them.

    August 14, 2012
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    Redack

    You'd get the list of 1 person, and the list of 1 role.

    August 14, 2012
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    hezekiah

    Not much information as of yet, obviously. No one really stands out as suspicious.

    Zanic could be lying about being the Good Twin, but I don't see any reason to doubt that claim at this time.

    I do agree with Majora, though, that we should kill someone today. If we don't kill anyone, the mafia will slowly pick us off while we do nothing to defend ourselves.

    That's a surefire way to defeat, guys.

    August 14, 2012
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    Yeano

    ^ Agreed. Let's mix it up and actually kill someone on the first day.

    August 14, 2012
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    Zanic

    You dare vote for me?!

    August 14, 2012
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    Also I've been busy IRL all day (only spent time in the world forum) so it'll take some time to review this post.

    August 14, 2012
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    Xhin
    Sky's the limit

    I'm not convinced anyone who's posted so far is innocent except maybe possibly Zanic. I hope I'm not wrong but I'm going to go with my gut instinct...

    August 14, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    We are about 9 hours into Day one and by my count 5 people have not posted. I would suggest this.

    Let's wait at least 24 hours to give these people a chance to make a post. If one or more still have not posted at the end of that time, we can then discuss another tool we can use.

    Get rid of the inactive players first.
    Then let the Orange Agent do his thing if that's what we want.

    It's going to be hard enough knowing who to kill without inactive players making it even harder.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    What you say makes sense, but if you happened to be a mobster and you could tell if those inactive players are all townies.... this makes things difficult.

    August 14, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    I kind of agree with Chief's plan too. We hardly ever go for the inactive players and we should. Partially because they're not helping us out at all, and also because as we've seen in the past, they sometimes are mafia(or cult) roles.

    August 14, 2012
    Edit
    Zanic

    but if you happened to be a mobster and you could tell if those inactive players are all townies..


    Since the members of the Mafia know who all their Mafia people are, they also know that everyone else is a townie rather they are active or inactive.

    The town does not have this info, so if we're going to kill someone, what difference does it make if it's random or because of inactivity.

    I'd rather start by keeping players that want to play and get rid of any that don't. Either way we may get a Mafia member.

    August 14, 2012
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    chiefsonny
     

    So wait, because a player (or players) don't post within the first 24 hours of talking we kill them? I say wait until Day Two or Three to even consider killing inactive players.

    Would I prefer having "x" amount of ACTIVE players? Yeah.

    But do I think we need to start killing people off after a full day of discussion because they haven't posted yet? That I just don't see as fair.

    I think the farthest we should go is 36 hours into the Second Round before even discussing this possibility. I mean, we haven't even cracked the 12 hour mark for this round yet.

    August 14, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Just to balance things out. If anyone gets lynched out, I'm not sure I wanted it to be Lancer right away.

    August 14, 2012
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    Redack

    I'll vote sometime tomorrow. I'd like to have more people say something, but it isn't like there's too much to talk about right now, and people could be busy offline.

    I'm basing my vote on gut instinct, which isn't much this early, but IMO it'd be better than just relying on a random vote.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    I say wait until Day Two or Three to even consider killing inactive players.


    And I have no problem with that at all. But some players are always in a hurry to move the game along. However in this game it may be better if we do take our time.

    August 15, 2012
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    chiefsonny
     

    I'm going to hold off...

    August 15, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    Glad we've cleared that up, chief. It just seemed to me that you were saying that we should go after players that haven't talked yet.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    At the moment (not counting "Not Voting"):

    Xhin - 2
    white lancer - 1

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Yeah... I have absolutely nothing to go on and I wouldn't really want to just pick a name out of a hat.

    August 15, 2012
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    Female Alpha Wolf

    What FAW said. After all, there's only five Mafia and fourteen of us, so voting at random would only give us a little over one in three shot at hitting someone in the Mafia. Not to mention everyone would be voting someone different if we all voted randomly, so the chances that we'd all hit a Mafia are actually more like one in 312, or one in a gargantuan number. We'd have a better shot at our Gambler winning the jackpot.

    August 15, 2012
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    Black Yoshi

    Zanic could be lying about being the Good Twin, but I don't see any reason to doubt that claim at this time.

    Unless we get a counter-claim, I very much doubt he's lying. Plus it's really not a viable long-term strategy for a Mafia member to put themselves in the position of 'desperation kill.' Kinda defeats the purpose.

    You dare vote for me?!

    Psh. You should be used to it by now. ;)

    I'm basing my vote on gut instinct, which isn't much this early, but IMO it'd be better than just relying on a random vote.

    Gut instinct is really the only thing we have to go off of, but I do want to caution people not to place 100% trust in our ability to read people. We've fallen into that trap before and destroyed the Town because we were 'sure' someone was guilty when they actually were innocent.

    Re: killing off inactive players: I'm torn on this issue. I definitely want to hear from everyone who is in the game, since we don't have an investigative role and reading their posts is the only way we'll be able to come to any sort of conclusion, but oftentimes people are inactive players because they are mere Townies and get bored (which I still don't understand, since I love playing as a normal Townie). Still, if we don't have any major suspicions, going after someone inactive is probably our next best bet because at least we wouldn't be getting rid of someone potentially helpful.

    August 15, 2012
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    white lancer

    We've fallen into that trap before and destroyed the Town because we were 'sure' someone was guilty when they actually were innocent.

    Could you be referring to the time when Knukles had us lynch the doctor?

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Zanic

    but oftentimes people are inactive players because they are mere Townies and get bored (which I still don't understand, since I love playing as a normal Townie)


    ^ This.

    Personally, I'm somewhat hesitant to blindly lynch anyone off, myself. But if we do, I'd feel more comfortable choosing an inactive member, for reasons provided by everyone else.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Frustro

    I think it goes without saying that I'm usually pretty inactive on the first day, unless I see that an early role-claim is the best strategy for the given moment.

    As for our course of action in the day round, since we have no investigatory power, it might be best to lynch the first day, as there isn't really anything to be gained by waiting (Other than watching the Orange Agent unleash hell on whoever).

    I skimmed the thread briefly, but did anyone get clarification if the Mafia target the Orange Agent? If the Mafia can lose someone to the Orange Agent (By visiting the targeted house), and the Mafia is the fourth action, one could conclude that the Orange Agent is immune to night kills unless the drug dealer increases priority on the Mafia actions, since the Orange Agent will never be at his house when the Mafia comes knocking (Implying that he continues to visit a new house every night, and that he doesn't end up killing himself). I think this is a bit of twisting the rules to the towns benefit, but it would certainly be helpful considering we have no cop.

    August 15, 2012
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    Shadowwalked

    Kyon is the last one who has yet to say anything, and Feral is having computer issues as he said.

    Still not sure who I am going to vote for, or if I am even going to vote at that.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Not just Kyon, but also White Thunder, CtR Black, Count Dooku, and Trever Leingod have not said anything in this thread yet.

    August 15, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    Gut instinct is really the only thing we have to go off of, but I do want to caution people not to place 100% trust in our ability to read people. We've fallen into that trap before and destroyed the Town because we were 'sure' someone was guilty when they actually were innocent.

    Considering that it is our only option, I don't really think we should worry too much about it being 100% reliable. We'll obviously mislynch--and we'll probably do it a lot--but we also have a lot of leeway taking into account the ratio.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    Not just Kyon, but also White Thunder, CtR Black, Count Dooku, and Trever Leingod have not said anything in this thread yet.


    Trever has posted if you want to call it that about 22 hours ago. Some comment about Marco Polo.

    When he post his user name shows up as Noctis Lucis Caelum.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Could have sworn they posted here. Guess I should have used the "Find" tool on Chrome. {:s}

    Enough leeway that if the Twins and Orange Agent don't act, the game could be over at the close of Day Four.

    I'm thinking if we do vote today to kill somebody, it should be a unanimous decision, much like how we played in Day One.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    Game One*

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    What would be unanimous, the specific person to kill, or just the decision whether or not to kill?

    August 15, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    The first question we'd need to answer is kill or not, and then who to kill.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    I safely assume it's the specific person to kill in this case...

    August 15, 2012
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    Black Yoshi

    I guess that's right.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    That is to say, quite a few of us seem to be leaning towards killing someone today-round, so the remaining question is who to kill...I have my suspicions about some folks here, but none are strong enough to follow.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Black Yoshi

    I vote to kill Roxas.

    Had his name in mind yesterday when I said we should wait a bit. More people have said stuff, I think it's still enough for me to make a "gut instinct vote." No one really strikes me as overly suspicious at this point, but I guess Roxas does more than anyone else so far.

    August 15, 2012
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    MajorasMask9

    @hezekiah, is the ratio really 5-14? I only count four mafia members listed, and I don't think there are any town-sided roles that affect the ratio like Lunatic does. Though I guess it's possible that I just missed something when skimming over it real fast. Unless there are two vanilla mafiosos our something.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    or!

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    MajorasMask9

    Respectable decision to say the least, Majora. If this were one of the first few games, I'd be casting my vote for you. However, most of us are passed that strategy and I still remain undecided if I shall be voting or not.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Starting Mafia-Town ratio: 5-14

    I am inclined say it is the latter option you stated of having two vanilla Mafioso, but some clarification from hezekiah would be helpful with this.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Not just Kyon, but also White Thunder, CtR Black, Count Dooku, and Trever Leingod have not said anything in this thread yet.

    Dooku has various things going on in his life at the moment, some of them he couldn't have predicted when he signed up for the game (I'll let him decide if he wants to say what or not). So he may be inactive for the early parts of the game until things settle down for him. Would be a bit unfair to lynch him out before he has a chance to play.

    No one really strikes me as overly suspicious at this point, but I guess Roxas does more than anyone else so far.

    I agree. Roxas is the only one I am suspicious of right now.

    August 15, 2012
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    Redack

    The Orange Agent is not immune to mafia kills.

    The first post was accurate, there are currently 5 mafia-sided players and 14 town-sided players.

    August 15, 2012
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    hezekiah

    "Unanimous" would be assumed to include Mafia members. If we came to a unanimous decision on which person to kill, obviously a Mafia member would not join in the unanimity until a non-Mafia person was chosen. For this reason, I would be suspicious of someone who recommends using this method.

    August 15, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    If we came to a unanimous decision on which person to kill, obviously a Mafia member would not join in the unanimity until a non-Mafia person was chosen.

    Not necessarily. It has happened on a few occasions.

    For this reason, I would be suspicious of someone who recommends using this method.

    It was merely a suggestion to force the Mafia's hand. If you feel so strongly that my thoughts on how to sort out who is Mafia and who is not are suspicious, then so be it.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    I just know that, regardless of what side I'm on in the game, my main objective is looking out for myself. If that means killing off teammates, then that's what it takes.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    unless noone counter claims zanic must be the twin, says tradition of mafia games.

    we dont really have anything to go by, but i guess it wouldnt hurt to randomly vote someone off since the special roles arent that... special.

    August 15, 2012
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    CtR Black

    Or he's doing it to protect the real twin(s).

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Naa. There's no way I can prove that I am the good twin, but I am. I don't know what I would have to gain by claiming it.

    August 15, 2012
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    Zanic

    Considering that it is our only option, I don't really think we should worry too much about it being 100% reliable. We'll obviously mislynch--and we'll probably do it a lot--but we also have a lot of leeway taking into account the ratio.

    What I meant was that in the past people have made guesses based on instincts, and then those guesses become assumptions, and then those assumptions become the basis for more assumptions, and then when their first assumptions are proven wrong they forget the second assumptions are based on faulty premises and continue with them anyway. Basically, going off of gut instinct is good in this game, but we have to be careful not to place 100% trust in our assumptions because those assumptions will then cloud the way we look at the game.

    Anyway, Roxas is the most suspicious to me as well, especially because his reactions to being accused don't strike me as natural. I'm going to hold off voting for him for now just because I don't want the round to end so soon, but right now I think he's our best bet.

    August 15, 2012
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    white lancer

    Why, because I don't see the need to argue a moot point brought about by one person, that being Jo Nathan? Redack and MM9, I can somewhat understand their basis. However, going after somebody because a suggestion that would result with no one person carrying any more load of blame than another? That, in my opinion, is much more suspicious than a mere suggestion.

    I've never really reacted "naturally" as others have. The only time I've acted other than I am now was in SW Republic at the end.

    If you guys think I am the best option, then so be it, but you will only be hurting yourselves if you go through with this lynch.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    I said something early in the thread as Noctis! Can't you people read?! {:P} The Marco Polo post.

    I agree with Yeano, we need to make a kill today just to get things rolling, but preferably someone who actually seems suspicious. DO NOT go for Xhin for the sake of tradition. He's a valuable thinker and it's just jank to kill him for no reason.

    Without our cop role, we are really shooting in the dark at the Mafia. If we don't get any kills (or any fewer than 2) by Day 3, we might need to consider a mass role reveal so we don't get completely dominated.

    August 15, 2012
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    Trever Leingod

    My mistake - I'm still learning people's aliases.

    Roxas, I apologize if it seems I'm making a hasty decision. For what it's worth, I didn't choose you for that reason alone.

    August 15, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    Would you mind bringing to light some of the other reasons?

    Also, lancer, what is a "natural" reaction to accusations?

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Natural reactions vary from person to person (and I'm not keen to give out a formula lest I tip off Mafia members in the future), so it's much easier to pinpoint what doesn't look like a natural reaction than what does. You just kinda seemed resigned when Majora cast his vote for you and it comes off as 'well, they caught me. Darn.'

    Without our cop role, we are really shooting in the dark at the Mafia. If we don't get any kills (or any fewer than 2) by Day 3, we might need to consider a mass role reveal so we don't get completely dominated.

    I'm not sure that a mass role reveal would really be all that helpful in this game. There are more vanilla Townies and fewer testable roles, and we still have a Janitor in this game. That didn't stop us that round but this time the Mafia have a lot of Townies to hide among, so the Janitor can really mess up a lot of the potential benefit. The only way I see a mass roleclaim as having a somewhat beneficial effect is if we did it today, before anyone dies, but that's a risk because we'd be exposing all our roles to the Mafia.

    Granted, our roles this game aren't actually that powerful, so the risks aren't as high as they might be in other games.

    August 15, 2012
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    white lancer

    I had been the only one who's even listed a reason for suspecting you, besides lancer just now. I would hope others can also explain their reasons too. I really don't want to reveal my thought process too much as it opens me up to easier manipulation in this game and possibly all future games.

    Just a comment regarding natural reactions - they are tricky to emulate, but they can be tricky to detect as well. Sometimes people are telling the truth but they are so worried about looking like they're lying that they get nervous and ultimately look like they're lying. I do that in real life sometimes. My wife always catches me when I lie, but sometimes she thinks I'm lying when I'm not and she says "you have that same stupid look on your face that you always do when you're lying" and I'm like "wtf seriously?" I guess I just have a stupid face.

    Things work a bit different online though, of course.

    August 15, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    Natural reactions vary from person to person (and I'm not keen to give out a formula lest I tip off Mafia members in the future), so it's much easier to pinpoint what doesn't look like a natural reaction than what does. You just kinda seemed resigned when Majora cast his vote for you and it comes off as 'well, they caught me. Darn.'

    A person's reactions can vary throughout their gaming experience as well, though. For instance, white lancer, you pointed me out in both our prior (completed) games together as being suspicious, and yet I was targeted by the Mafia not long after. Your reasoning seemed to be how smoothly I rolled off my Mafia accusations, although you never stated that outright.

    I'm not sure that a mass role reveal would really be all that helpful in this game. There are more vanilla Townies and fewer testable roles, and we still have a Janitor in this game. That didn't stop us that round but this time the Mafia have a lot of Townies to hide among, so the Janitor can really mess up a lot of the potential benefit. The only way I see a mass roleclaim as having a somewhat beneficial effect is if we did it today, before anyone dies, but that's a risk because we'd be exposing all our roles to the Mafia.

    By Day 3 the Janitor will only be able to hide two bodies at most, assuming the Doctor doesn't intercept a Mafia kill. Depending on how many Mafia remain by then, that will give us at most give us six possible false claims (4 Mafia, 2 dead roles). That's still far better odds than shooting in the dark.

    August 15, 2012
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    Trever Leingod

    Other than a few cases (Game Two when Knukles was about to get lynched and Republic Game), my reaction has mostly been the same when suspicions were cast upon me. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if it's my time to go in the game, it's my time to go.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Just gonna post this so you guys know I'm here.

    As Redack said, I'm having a bit of a family emergency at the moment. My grandmother's house burned down due to a wildfire a few days ago and we're trying to deal with that as best we can. In addition, I had my first day of college for this semester yesterday and I'm trying to make sense of that as well.

    Basically, I'm here and I'll try to keep up with the game, but I probably won't be very active.

    Personally, I think killing a single townie to kill a mafia member is a good trade off so early in the game. Not to mention that the Good/Evil twin can influence the lynching like a Governor. For that reason, I'm voting for our Good Twin claim (and by extension, the Evil Twin).

    August 15, 2012
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    Count Dooku

    Zanic has claimed to be the Good Twin. We need to kill someone so why not take out Zanic if that means the Evil Twin will also die tonight.

    Or can they protect each other?

    If they can't protect each other and killing Zanic means also getting one mafia for sure. Even if the Janitor hides the body and we don't know who was the Evil Twin, we still know their numbers are down by one.

    Need a ruling Hezy. Can the Twins protect each other.?

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Each twin can protect each player exactly once. So the ET can protect the ET and the GT, or the GT may protect the GT and the ET. If a player is protected, they may not be lynched during that round.

    Example: if I'm the Good Twin, and I chose during Night 0 to protect myself, I could not be lynched during Day 1. I could, however, be lynched during Day 2.

    August 15, 2012
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    hezekiah

    Can the GT protect himself one night and then be protected by the ET on another night? To expand on the example you provided, could the Evil Twin protect you on Night 1 and prevent you from being lynched during Day 2?

    August 15, 2012
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    Jo Nathan

    Yes, that would be a legal play.

    August 15, 2012
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    hezekiah

    Thanks. I figured as much, but I just wanted to be sure.

    So at most, this means if we wanted to lynch Zanic it could theoretically take up to three attempts if he opts to protect himself one night. If we want to lynch him it would make sense to do it today. I'm just wondering about the likelihood one of them thought to protect him during Night 0.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Jo Nathan

    A person's reactions can vary throughout their gaming experience as well, though. For instance, white lancer, you pointed me out in both our prior (completed) games together as being suspicious, and yet I was targeted by the Mafia not long after. Your reasoning seemed to be how smoothly I rolled off my Mafia accusations, although you never stated that outright.

    Last game I only thought you'd be a good target because you were one of the Townie claims. I don't remember the other game, but I can't recall ever suspecting you for 'smoothly rolling off Mafia accusations.' It's very possible that I'm wrong about Roxas, but I find his reaction post very oddly worded and it's interesting that there's not a denial in there at all:

    Respectable decision to say the least, Majora. If this were one of the first few games, I'd be casting my vote for you. However, most of us are passed that strategy and I still remain undecided if I shall be voting or not.

    It sounds like he's trying to imply something along the lines of "if I were Mafia I would be defensive and cast my vote for you, but I'm not going to." I dunno, to me it just seems like he's going out of his way not to seem defensive and that makes me leery of him.

    Need a ruling Hezy. Can the Twins protect each other.?

    This is actually a really good point and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier. We can't simply use the Good Twin as a desperation vote because the Evil Twin would be able to protect him and prevent him from dying. That means we should probably target Zanic within the next couple of rounds, assuming we haven't killed the Evil Twin by then. Still, I want to target Roxas first and save Zanic for a time in which we really don't have any good suspicions. If it were just me that felt Roxas was suspicious I'd be inclined to back off on it, but I feel a little less tentative since other people's instincts match my own.

    The other thing is that if we target someone who we feel is suspicious and they wind up being the Evil Twin, we won't have to sacrifice one of our own to get rid of a Mafia member. Redack told me he had a conversation with Roxas over AIM and that Roxas was very defensive when he brought up the Evil Twin. So sorry if you're innocent, Roxas, but you've just been too shifty in my eyes so far.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer

    So at most, this means if we wanted to lynch Zanic it could theoretically take up to three attempts if he opts to protect himself one night. If we want to lynch him it would make sense to do it today. I'm just wondering about the likelihood one of them thought to protect him during Night 0.

    Zanic should be working on our side, so it shouldn't take us three attempts to kill him. Zanic, don't protect yourself during the night as long as the Evil Twin is alive, because we unfortunately might need to kill you to ensure we get a Mafia member.

    August 15, 2012
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    white lancer

    Respectable decision to say the least, Majora. If this were one of the first few games, I'd be casting my vote for you. However, most of us are passed that strategy and I still remain undecided if I shall be voting or not.

    I think what he meant was "If this was one of the first few games, I would have gotten butthurt about you voting for me, so I would have voted for you out of spite".

    August 15, 2012
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    Female Alpha Wolf

    Exactly, FAW.

    As I said to Redack earlier, there is a difference between being defensive and straight up telling somebody that they aren't going to reveal their power role to the other.

    It's whatever though. Y'all want to lose multiple power roles over a day and night round, be my guest.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    That actually sounds fishier to me. :-/ If you're a power role, I would have expected that you'd be much less inclined simply to accept your fate. I can understand a Townie saying 'vote me off if you want, but it won't help you,' but a power role usually has more reason to want to stay alive and a way to argue why they shouldn't be killed.

    That being said, if you are a power role, right now is about when you should be claiming. It's always better to claim your role than to wind up dead via town lynch.

    August 15, 2012
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    white lancer

    As I said to Redack earlier, there is a difference between being defensive and straight up telling somebody that they aren't going to reveal their power role to the other.

    My initially comment was where I said something along the lines of:

    "We should lynch Zanic" and jokingly added that I hope you're the evil twin so that you'd die.

    You proceeded to to defend it three times after that when I didn't even accuse you after that initial joke.

    August 15, 2012
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    Redack

    Should be "initial" in my previous reply.

    August 15, 2012
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    Redack

    No, I told you I would not discuss my role with you. Period. You then continued on, seemingly accusing me of being the Evil Twin, so yeah, I would get defensive about that. I still see no reason to discuss my role in the game because there is no point in doing so.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    `Roxas`

    Yea when we initially talked much earlier. I'm talking about the part of the conversation after Zanic revealed.

    August 15, 2012
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    Redack

    Huh...seems everyone's suspicious of Roxas. Just like last gane when suddenly we all became suspicious of Zanic, then everyone changed their minds and voted Hezekiah at the last second. And then it turned out Zanic was the Godfather.

    If this turns out like I think it will, we'll be one-up on the Mafia.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Black Yoshi

    It may sound weird, but I'm totally down for getting lynched. It will take down a mafia member and bring us a step closer to winning. I'd better get a point for that Hez.

    And if you guys takes out the evil twin, then I would die anyway. There's really no way I can survive this game unless we kill him last anyway. I'll make sure not to protect myself tonight.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Zanic

    I still see no reason to discuss my role in the game because there is no point in doing so.

    This doesn't make any sense either. If you were an actual power role (as you implied), revealing it would make us reconsider voting you out. That's hardly pointless as we'd be able to search out other suspicions. There's no point in keeping your role quiet if you're going to die via Town lynch anyway.

    August 15, 2012
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    white lancer

    roxas seems to be giving up. maybe we got one.

    So after w lynch roxas, if he's not the evil twin we lynch zanic to take out the evil twin?

    August 15, 2012
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    CtR Black

    No point in keeping it to myself, yet no point in exposing it, don't you agree? What difference does it make if I reveal now as opposed to after my death?

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    I don't agree. If you expose your role it would keep us from lynching you unless there's a counter-claim. The only way it doesn't make any difference is if you are, in fact, Mafia.

    So after w lynch roxas, if he's not the evil twin we lynch zanic to take out the evil twin?

    I think that's pretty much the plan. If we're lucky we will have gotten rid of two Mafia members relatively early on.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    white lancer


    It may sound weird, but I'm totally down for getting lynched. It will take down a mafia member and bring us a step closer to winning. I'd better get a point for that Hez.

    And if you guys takes out the evil twin, then I would die anyway. There's really no way I can survive this game unless we kill him last anyway. I'll make sure not to protect myself tonight.


    If I'm right about Roxas then you're going to die when we lynch him off anyway.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Redack

    Well, I'll get to last another day if he is my evil counterpart.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Zanic

    Or wait. Nevermind.

    August 15, 2012
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    Zanic

    It says next night round, so I'd guess you die as soon as we go into Night 1 {:P}

    August 15, 2012
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    Redack

    If Roxas is the evil twin you should definitely get pity points {:P}

    August 15, 2012
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    Redack

    Oohh, the nerve-wracking anxiety of this game. I'm gonna need some serious treatment after this shindig, lol. And I assume it's only gonna get WORSE.

    So I'm inclined to jump on the Roxas bandwagon, simply because I was a little uneasy about his posts myself, newbie status be damned, so I'm ready to charge him. Of course, it's possible that the Mafia all decided to gang up on him. In which case, if Roxas turns out to be a Townie, it makes perfect sense to be suspicious of everyone who originally pointed the finger at him (me included, natch). Here's to hoping that won't be the outcome.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Frustro

    Sorry about the delayed response. This week is turning out pretty busy after all!

    Yeah, I agree that `Roxas` is the one to kill. I have some suspicions about a few other people, but essentially `Roxas` has really been hurting himself in his last several replies. I think we got one, guys!

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    Yeano

    Well, I guess I shall go down with dignity. Know that I hold no hard feelings against any of you (EXCEPT FOR REDACK, SEE YOU IN MAFIA HELL). {shy}

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    Also two (or one) voters remain to end my game.

    August 15, 2012
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    `Roxas`

    So we're at the end of the 2nd day of this day round and 2 people have yet to post. White Thunder and Kyon.

    Makes mental note.

    August 15, 2012
    Edit
    chiefsonny
     

    Sorry guys, been traveling, across the entire country no less. I *should* be pretty active from now on, but certainly no promises, especially considering that I'm with my family.

    After reading this thread, my main suspicions were Rox, Redack, and Lancer. If Roxas is innocent those will definitely be the people we should scrutinize next. If not, they're pretty much cleared. I'll vote for Roxas to finish him off, and we'll go from there!

    August 16, 2012
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    White Thunder

    Night 1

    With the town concluding that their copless state necessitated swift action, White Thunder cast the deciding vote to lynch one of their own. Luckily for the town, `Roxas` was the Evil Twin.

    1. Yeano
    2. White Thunder
    3. chiefsonny
    4. Feral
    5. white lancer
    6. Frustro
    7. Kyon
    8. CtR Black
    9. Xhin
    10. Count Dooku
    11. MajorasMask9
    12. `Roxas` - Evil Twin
    13. Black Yoshi
    14. Trever Leingod
    15. Zanic
    16. Female Alpha Wolf
    17. Redack
    18. Jo Nathan
    19. Shadowwalked

    Mafia-Town ratio: 4-14

    24 hours to complete all night actions.

    August 16, 2012
    Edit
    hezekiah

    Reply to: game x thread 1 night 1 wake me up when september ends

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